Episode 35 - Inside Scale Model Challenge with Robert & Margot Crombeecke

[00:00:03] No matter your scale, subject or skill level, you're among fellow Benchmates. Welcome to Beyond The Box Art, the Scale Modellers Podcast.

[00:00:31] Welcome to Episode 35 and we are joined by Margot and Robert Crombeecke for a fascinating chat on the upcoming Scale Model Challenge show.

[00:00:48] Please welcome Brownie, your host and designated Chaos Coordinator, together with Balders, Dan, Neves and Shane. Five modelers, several opinions, very little restraint.

[00:01:09] Hi Benchmates and welcome to Episode 35 of Beyond The Box Art. Before we bring in the rest of the crew we need to start with something that has genuinely taken us a little bit by surprise. Since the last episode, which was the first ever IPMS President's Roundtable, we've been absolutely inundated with emails, private messages and comments from listeners around the globe.

[00:01:30] Firstly, thank you. What began as an idea to bring the presidents of IPMS UK and USA together for an open conversation seems to have struck a much bigger chord than many of us expected. And perhaps the most important thing to come out of all these messages is that it wasn't a one-off. The IPMS President's Roundtable will now become an annual feature of the show, giving national IPMS organisations the opportunity to come together, talk openly about the hobby, share ideas, discuss the challenges they face and hopefully learn a little from one another.

[00:01:59] And we want to make it absolutely clear, this is not an invitation only conversation between a handful of countries. This is open to every national IPMS President around the world. Just in case this isn't picked up by every IPMS President that the miracle that it was, and you are listening in a country you don't think has responded to us yet, please drop your President an email, tell them about the show, tell them to get involved.

[00:02:25] Just drop us an email to info at beyondtheboxart.com and we'll add you to the invitation list. Because if the reaction to the first conversation taught us anything, it's that modelers want to hear organisations talking with each other rather than simply talking about each other. So to John and Rich, thanks very much for helping to get the first one off the ground. And to everybody who emailed, messaged, commented and shared the episode, thank you.

[00:02:49] You've helped turn what was originally an experiment into something that will hopefully become an important annual conversation with the international modelling community. Right then, that's enough sensible behaviour for one episode, let's bring in the rest of the rabble. So for this episode, I'm joined by Shane. How's it going, Benchmates? Dan. Hello, Benchmates. Boulders. I'm Benchmates. And the return of Neves. Hi, troops. Troops? We've just suddenly been enlisted. Yeah, into the Benchmates Army. Yeah.

[00:03:20] Stouples and paintbrushes at the ready. Oh dear, it's gonna be one of those evenings. Anyway, let's start like we normally do with what we've got on our benches. And I'm gonna start for a change with me. Hey, I've had a delicate delivery to them today. Good job we're sat down, Brownie. Exactly. Yeah. Oh? Yes. Good job I took my heart meds. And it's come from Canada. One thirty second scale. It's not another Missouri Corp stuff is it? No. What is it? I'm not rude about it because it's Dan this year.

[00:03:50] Yeah, it's coming my way that one. Oh yes. And it's not long till we find out what it is, because the US Nationals has only, as we recall this, just over a week away. How is it? At least I'm last. Oh my God. I've got enough going on as well at the moment. Anyway, carry on. So from Canada. Yes. Okay. Anyway, from Canada, one thirty second scale Joycraft Canada C114 tutor, as operated by the Snowbirds display team.

[00:04:19] A very, very nice 3D printed kit. Perspex is injection moulded. The decals are cartographed. It is beautiful. And there's no wavy lines. No. Such a cool scheme. No wavy lines. That's good then. It is really absolutely top notch. Really, really pleased with that.

[00:04:44] The trouble I'm having is finding absolutely any reference photographs of any quality for the CT114. It's not an aircraft that's covered mainly, is it? Because obviously the Snowbirds had it, but that's a, as far as I'm aware, that's the only aircraft that I've ever seen a picture of, but there's no reference material. It's quite scarce. Well, the Canadian Air Force and the armed forces as they were for a long period of time from the sixties onwards, operated the type for training up until about,

[00:05:13] it must be about 15, 10, 15 years ago now, I believe. I've probably got that horribly wrong. And I'm expecting emails on that already. I'll have a look now. And there was one export customer, which was Malaysia, had them. But beyond that, nobody operated the type. They never did a European tour with the aircraft because they didn't have the range to get across here. So hopefully with their new aircraft, which will be the PC-21 around about 2030, I think

[00:05:41] it is, because they're being disestablished this year at the end of the 2026 season. So the Snowbirds had taken a hiatus for a few years, then they'll get the new aircraft and then they'll be back operational, but they will have the range to get to Europe, if borders. Well, sorry, you'd all get bombarded with emails. It was actually 2000. The aircraft was retired. 2000. So the Snowbirds have been operating them onward since then. Yeah.

[00:06:06] In May 26, Canada announced to produce the CT-157 Siskin II, which is a Pilatus PC-21. So, yep. So hopefully my friend Ed, who's over in Moose Jaw in Canada, will be taking some photographs of undercarriage bays for me to get a few little detailed shots because his name is on the deco sheet because he was Snowbird 10 for the Canadian Air Force's 100th anniversary year. So three guesses which airframe I'm building. I think. An high speed silver one?

[00:06:36] No, no, no. Give me the current scheme for the Snowbirds. Are you doing the Snowbirds? Oh yes. Quite like the old schemes, you know, with the red and the silver. Oh, then I've seen the golden eagles one with the gold on the top with the red and then the blue underneath. Hmm. Yes. It's a nice scheme. It is a nice scheme. But yeah, that's what I'm going for. So that's going to be on my bench when I get home as I'm after a week away at work again.

[00:07:03] And I should be hitting him with that one. As in that, I haven't spent anything because I paid for this over a year ago. So spending wise, nothing because it's been prepaid. So with that, let's go on to our next victim, Shane. Well, on the bench is still the challenge or two and the bill is pretty much done actually.

[00:07:28] So I just need to wait for a window that isn't completely roasting hot to get some paint down. So yeah, I've got it on the bench next to me here. It's, I'm looking forward to getting, getting painting to be honest with you. So yeah, taking my time a bit, enjoying the process, learning a lot as I go. Just ask Mr. Brazil, some of the silly questions I've been asking him. Has he got you on the right tracks? Well, I saved the casting markings from Shane. I think he was about to carve them off on the top.

[00:07:58] And I said, no, leave them on there. They're supposed to be there. Honestly, I was like, Dan, this might seem like a really silly question, but he was like, no, no, no. Can't type quick enough. Leave them on there. There's no such thing as a silly question. There isn't in modeling because not everybody knows, do they? So exactly. No, but yeah, so that's what's on the bench.

[00:08:18] And I am, I'm going to be taking a project away with me on holiday because we're going on our family holiday in a couple of days time. And I've got a third party kit, which I actually bought at Telford, which is a one 100 scale new Gundam. It's a third party kit.

[00:08:37] So I can just take that box and a set of nippers and some sanding sticks with me on holiday and sit there and enjoy the hobby whilst, whilst I'm on holiday chilling out. So looking forward to getting into that. And then cash wise, I have mainly been buying paint sets for the challenger. I've done a bit of research and I actually bought myself the Vallejo US modern desert colors.

[00:09:06] And before anyone says the challenger isn't US, I know that it's just because the nearest match on paint that I can get. That's from Tamiya to Vallejo is actually a mixture between Vallejo 71, one two two, which is the US desert arm and 71, one 40, which is US desert sand. So I'm going to do a little bit of mixing, but yeah, that's the reason I went for that kit. So a bit of research and that's what came on trumps for me. So yeah, I'm really looking forward.

[00:09:35] Are you going to prime it? Yeah. I'm going to go with, with dark earth. Yeah. And then, yeah, I'm going to go with US, uh, for yellow desert sand, and then use the US desert arm color to pick out the highlights. And then there's actually in, in the box as well is Vallejo's 71, one three two, which is aged white, which will really pick out the, what's it that you had the army lighter colors on the desert scheme. So yeah.

[00:10:05] So yeah, looking forward to getting my teeth into it, but I think it's probably realistically, it's going to be a good few weeks before, before I get any painting done with the holiday in between, but it's also like 28 degrees in the house at the minute. So it's a bit too hot really. So where are you going on your holidays at? Holly Bob's is down to the Isle of white. Ah, it's a bit of a family tradition. We've been going now for 14 years or something ridiculous, but yeah, we're looking forward to it.

[00:10:34] We actually had a nice family week weekend leading up to it. We were at Duxford on Friday for the US flying day. And I mentioned to you guys before, before the recording started, which spent Sunday at the Glen Miller museum, which is only about sort of 10, 15 miles from where I live over the back of Bedford at twin woods. And we've grown up in sort of Hertford, Bedford, all my life. I didn't even know it existed. The place is phenomenal and it's run by volunteers.

[00:11:03] The amount of history there is amazing. And for those of you that like Dan like to go visit different places, it's only a couple of miles from Furley or the American fur eye. And you can pop in and go and visit it. It's a fiver. And I honestly can't speak highly enough of it. There's just so much to see and do there. Like the boys had a great time. I was flabbergasted the whole day.

[00:11:29] And that all came about because we were, we were out doing a model expo from the Bedford model club. So yeah, really, really interesting, fun day out on Sunday. So yeah, bit of history building up for me there. I was just looking on the Isle of Wight. You've got five model shops on the island. Yeah, it's ridiculous. There's been a model shop per square mile in the Isle of Wight than there is anywhere else in the UK. There is a few upstairs, downstairs.

[00:12:00] There's quite a few model clubs on the island as well. Quite a few model clubs. Yeah. We'll be paying a visit to upstairs, downstairs at the very least, because that is also a bit of a tradition. We'd definitely be going in there. Yeah. There's pit stop models as well. Pit stop. Yeah. What's the one in cows as well? Just off the high street in cows. Can't think of the name of that one. There's retro hobby and game, sprues and glues. And if you, depending on the time, are you going on the ferry? Yeah. Depending on what time you get into Portsmouth.

[00:12:29] There's also the model shop in Portsmouth. Uh, well we're going from Southampton. We're going from Southampton. Ah, okay. So not that one then. No, not that one. Yeah. So from Southampton into, into cows. So yeah, I'll be doing that, but the retro hobby and game actually is really good. We do go there as well. They've got some really cool things in there. So your Gundam that you're taking, are you not painting it then? No.

[00:12:52] The third party kit that I've got, the, the variety of colors that are on this sprues are incredible. And there's all sorts of metallic colors as well. So it's metallic gold, metallic red, like deep orange colors as well. Yeah. And it's, I've seen pictures to be made up and it doesn't need, it doesn't need painting. It will have a few decals on it. The kit comes with some beautiful water side decals. So I'll be adding those onto them.

[00:13:19] But yeah, it's just perfect for, let's say, just a couple of sanding sticks, some nippers, a knife. And off we go. Jacob's obviously got a model that he's going to be taking with him as well, just to find a suitable one for, for Edward to fit in the car. Well, I may have a suggestion for that. Oh, go on then. I'd go with one of the blockies because William just got the blockies Ironman. Ah. Yes. Ah, yeah. Yeah. And it, it's really, really nice. Yeah. Really.

[00:13:49] Excellent. Well, Star Wars ones are nice as well. Um, my other half built the Mandalorian. Comes with two Grogu's. So you can have one sat on your shoulder or you can have one on the floor. I remember doing it on the stash actually from, oh, that was not soon about four or five months ago, but yeah, I remember talking about that one on the stash. Yeah. They're here now. Yeah. And the Darth Vader as well. The Darth Vader's. Some of them look a bit toyishly. Yeah. Thor looks nothing like Thor.

[00:14:17] That looks a bit toyish, but the Iron Man, the Spider-Man, the Batman, Deadpool looks absolutely class. Oh yeah. Up to the money. Okay. We are working away through the Marvel films at the moment and Iron Man, I think will be very popular. So that's a really good shout out. I'll just give a little tip with those because William didn't like the shiny finish on not his Iron Man. He's got the, one of the Spider-Man ones as well, and he wanted it in a matte sort of finished like Spider-Man suit.

[00:14:47] And I bought Mr. Hobby, the rattle can of the Mr. Hobby matte finish and gave it some light coats. It matted it down beautifully, but it did start to clog up some of the articulation points on it. Yeah. And that was a, yeah, bit of a, I mean, it's fine. He doesn't sort of, he poses them a few times and stuff like that, but it just made it a little bit, a little bit sort of stiffer to be able to pose. Yeah. Keep that in mind.

[00:15:15] Edward will, I'm sure want to play, actually play with his. Actually play with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good shout. Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. And going back to the Challenger 2. Yes. I've actually got, I've actually found all the data from the British Armistice because the Challenger 2 is the second in the second goal, but a lot yellower than the Americans. So I've got the ratios here of the Tamiya paints to mix it. If you want it. The Tamiya ones. Yeah. Yeah. Send it over.

[00:15:44] Cause I mean, I've got, I'm just looking at my desk here. I've got one, two, three, four, five, nine different types. Read them out anyway, boulders. Cause I'm sure there'll be bench mates that might want to use the Tamiya. Yeah. Read them out. Yeah. Yeah. So Tamiya desert yellow is 70%. So if you're doing in drops of paint, I would do seven drops of paints. Yeah. 20% of deck tan and 10% of buff.

[00:16:10] If you want to light in certain areas, I would just drop the deck tan to like 10% and then just mix it and that gives you that yellow, that yellow tinge to the desert sand. Yeah. Obviously, if you see what, if a challenger won, you would drop the desert yellow a bit. So say like 60% and add more. Deck tan. So I'd go to like 25% to then 15% of bucks.

[00:16:36] I'm going to have a look at comparing them to the Vallejo colors that I've got here. Cause that's effectively what I did. I just did TS 46. Like the Tamiya light sand compared to that video. I looked at the paint charts, did a load of research and it turned out quite, quite a few, but yeah, you're right. The yellowy element is really important. And that's what I quite like about that. The aged white, because that has got a very sort of like a, you know, this, the yellow side of white. If that makes sense.

[00:17:05] Like I said, I've used that for the challenger two that I did with a academy warrior. And I just got a piece of MDF, got some wet and dry sandpaper, glued it down, put the sand down the side, put a sign on. And they said Baghdad, so many miles that way with bullet holes in it. And I called it the highway to hell. And yeah, it did pretty well. Have you thought about weathering, Shane? Yeah. I've thought about weathering.

[00:17:31] I think we're going to, I'm going to play around with the modulation on the paint, but weathering wise, I'm looking at the oils and using the same technique as black rifle. I used where, yeah. Again, like the oils, you leave it on. Yeah. Sort of 40, 40, 40 minutes or so. And then you get your fingers, go over it, let it all drip in. Um, so I'm looking forward to giving that a go. I've got some, ah, good. Yeah. I've got some pencils as well for that chipping. So I've got some of those and I'll also use the sponging technique as well.

[00:18:00] But, um, I'll mix it up with, with obviously some, some metals, but I think more like the green, like the, the darker. Cause obviously that's when it chipped away, that's what you would have seen. If you're a bit unsure of house house, any of it's going to look, if you spray the bottom of the hull in the color as well, that you can just flip it over and just try because it just gives you a little, cause it is that exact same paint surface. It's that exact same color as what you've put on the top. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to do that.

[00:18:30] And also use the underneath for the turret. Separate a little area to try. So are you, so you're going to go with what we would call the oil dot rendering sort of technique? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to put any pigments on? It depends how good my paint job is. No, I think, um, Oh, pigments are a faff. Well, the thing is with the pigment, a pigment can add a multitude of sins. So the thing is about armor, armor's never, you can make a mistake on armor and you can recover it beautifully.

[00:18:58] Well, I am tempted that you can't do it on aircraft. I am tempted with the pigments. Well, you can't hide a crap build boulders. This, I know people use that as a, yeah, it depends. It's not being fully, but nobody can cock up a challenger too from Tamiya for God's sake. It's you can, it's a shake and bake it. No challenge accepted boulders. Oh dear. You haven't glued the tracks on backwards, have you? But do you know what?

[00:19:25] The reason, going back to your pigments, oh, is it, did it only go one way? Easy to pop off and pull back round, holly cap. Going back to the pigments thing, right? So obviously with the, the chally too, you've got the side skirts, which are obviously fabric. And I think that would look a lot better with like a pigment layer on them. That would give you that element of realism. That would give you that dusty look on the rubber skirts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:52] But also on top as well, Shane, because they were covered in sand on top. Yeah. So you can, if you've got a bit too much oil in a corner that you can't really get out, just drop pigments in and a bit of pigment setter and just have it so that it's collecting sand and dust and everything else. I mean, it's going to be a completely different, just like approach for me because I'm, as you guys know, aircraft and Gundam that you can get a bit creative on the Gundam side of things.

[00:20:19] Aircraft wise, you know, you look in a lot of reference pictures, but generally speaking, the level of weathering, you can easily overdo it without doing too much on an aircraft. So I've always been quite restrained in that respect. So I'm really looking forward to a different approach and letting loose a little bit. Yeah. So we'll see how we go. Yeah. There's like, there's so many fantastic images online that you can just pick and choose certain elements for.

[00:20:47] They've got a rubber, a black rubber portion that goes just in front of the, where the tracks go in over the top of the mud guards. I mean, they're very, very rarely black. They, you start off with gray and then they'll be covered in dust and whatnot. And it does rain in the desert. Yeah. I think, um, I said some of the videos, the research I've done. Yeah. The grays and the tan colors instantly like straight through. So, uh, yeah, it's going to be interesting.

[00:21:16] I think really there's probably going to be a few episodes before, before I get to that point in terms of the pod. But yeah, I just need the weather to break and I can actually get some paint on it. I dunno what you're complaining about. It's only been 17 degrees over here all day. Yeah. Lucky you. 20 up here, Brown, where we are. Well, obviously where you live. It's been 20, but humidity has been absolutely awful today. Hmm. Thankfully I'm down here on the coast near Cardigan in Wales. It's had a nice sea breeze most of the day.

[00:21:46] So it's been rather temperate, but I believe you're going to get up to about sort of 33, 34 on Thursday. Thursday. Yeah. I've been in a marquee tent on Wednesday, lunchtime cooking. Drinking. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, I'm actually Wednesday's my graduation for my MBA. So I will have my ridiculously heavy. Our gown on down and mortar board on with a big hood. So I'm going to be very warm, but we're looking forward to it.

[00:22:15] So that's kind of like our Wednesday. We're going to graduation. The kids are coming, which is going to be lovely. And yeah, we're going to have, we're going to have a little family, a family sort of celebration, come home, swap cars, load the dog in to my car and then drive down to the ferry for Holly Bobs. So it's a very fun bike day. So you need to go on, you need to go on holiday to be able to do some modeling. Yeah. Yeah, exactly that. But we need a graduation photo for the Benchmate site. Yeah, I know. Of course. That's that.

[00:22:44] I'm sure I can do that. Just bear in mind, it probably won't look one to one scale for a lot of you. Yeah. Nevs, before you say it. I was, it was on the tip of my tongue. It celebrates in scale modeling in all of its shapes and sizes. Mm-hmm. Including the scale of the modelers. Yeah. Yeah. Two years, two years of hard work. So I'm looking forward to celebrating that. So yeah. Congratulations mate. Well done. Indeed. Yeah. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay.

[00:23:12] Well, once we've got you Nevs and you're still awake, I know you had an early start today. So over to you. What have you got on the bench? Has it's been a while to hopefully some decent progress? Well, it depends on your definition of progress. Ah. But just for the benefit of listeners, I have been awake for just shy of 19 hours. Oh, we have to get the violin out Nev. We get the orchestra going. So Brownie's going to be speechless now because I've actually listened to his advice.

[00:23:40] The ships have gone to the back of the workbench and what is on the front is a Tamiya A6M50. Large kit. You wanted a pallet cleanser? Very nice. And yeah, it is definitely a pallet cleanser. When you become a naval modeler, you get used to running a marathon, not a sprint.

[00:24:03] And I'm still trying to get used to actually having parts that can fit together and bits of the build be done within an hour or two. It, that is out of my comfort zone now. So as you guys know, when I do aircraft, I do them in 72nd scale. So these kinds of kits are perfect for me. And I always try and model them in flight. So I always do the pilots. Obviously the majority of these don't come with pilot figures.

[00:24:31] So part of the purchases I've made over the last sort of two weeks, three weeks is a red box actually do a pack of IGN crew pilots, which is absolutely great. So I've got a pilot on the workbench as well for it. He's, he's waving as he goes along. So obviously as with my naval subjects, I definitely go down a rabbit hole once I've got these things on the bench.

[00:24:58] So when I was going to do the zeros or, you know, whatever Japanese naval aviation subjects I was going to do was going to be from 601 Kokutai, which is the Naval Air Group, which was formed for Shinano. And it had service aboard carriers like the Taiho, which was sunk at Battle of the Philippine Sea. Some of its aircraft served on carriers like the Unryu and the Imagi. So it's a really fascinating air group.

[00:25:27] And the time that I'm modeling the A6 M5-4, the tail codes on the aircraft literally said 601 dash whatever the next aircraft was. So I'm doing it sequentially and doing 601 dash 01 for the first zero. So a lot of the research I've done, the aircraft numbers don't follow like a logical sequence. You might get 01, 02. We know were A6 M5 zeros.

[00:25:55] You jump to maybe 05 and that might be a Nakajima B6N Tenzan. Obviously, because they're within the same air, Naval Air Group, they carry the same codes. And there was never thought, okay, the first fighter squadron will be codes one through to 12. There wasn't any of that kind of organization, which is good because when I eventually do multiple subjects from the same air group, you can have a real diversity of codes.

[00:26:23] So I could start with 601-01 and then jump to 601-141 if I want something completely different. So, and funnily enough, even though it's the Mitsubishi A6 M5, by that stage of the war, Nakajima were building the majority. So even though you might buy all the paints thinking, okay, I need a Mitsubishi cockpit green or whatever it is, waste of money.

[00:26:49] You need a Nakajima interior green because they were all painted in Nakajima colors, which in some ways is easier because the cowling on a Mitsubishi Zero, when it's a Mitsubishi built one, it's this quite enigmatic black green color. It's not quite black. It's not green. It's got a bit of a pearlescent shade to it, but the Nakajima ones were just flat black. So a lot easier. So, so yeah. Yeah. So did it chip Neves that cowling?

[00:27:19] Cause I've got, I've obviously got the big old Tamiya 32nd one to do and need to get my head around that at some point. Was it known for chipping with that cowling? Funnily enough. So I think part of the reason Brownie wanted me to do an A6 M5 is that we have a little book here that you want me to review on chipping techniques of, and one of the big things in that is an A6 M5 Zero.

[00:27:44] Now the greens that the Japanese Navy used were notorious for just chipping like mad and the IGA greens as well. The cowling you never see chipping on. Right. Okay. Lonely ever.

[00:27:59] And part of the reason as well is the fabric of these aircraft was so thin that honestly just standing on the airframe dented it and caused all sorts of problems to the point where they actually integrated pull out foot stools to get into the thing to avoid damaging them. But you know, when you descend down this, these rabbit holes, you just become obsessed, don't you? So I'm obsessed with the engineering that goes into it.

[00:28:24] And you just hear all of these sort of Western approaches to like the A6 M0. Like, Oh, it was a, it was a lighter. It was, you know, it was outdated. It was obsolete, but we were still flying an airframe in 1945 that had been designed in 1937. Exactly. Now, were the zeros primered or was it just metal with paint put on top? Because I seem to remember something about it for speed in production. They literally just put paint straight onto metal. Yeah.

[00:28:53] And that explains why you get that chipped appearance as well. So I think that book that you're asking me to review, it starts with just the primed undercoat. Now for me, when I'm doing the assembly, that makes it a bit tricky because like I say, the cowling is just treated so differently. It's a very different paint mixture. So you can't just literally tarnish the entire thing with one brush. You have to treat that as a separate part of the airframe and the engine.

[00:29:21] I'm going to treat all of that differently to the rest of the build. So yeah, I'm going to prime the rest of it in a metallic silver. I'm actually going to buy some of the ammo chipping fluid because I've seen some of the technique videos for that, which looks quite good. Yeah. Then apply the Nakajima green over the top and see what comes out. That'll work quite well, I think. You said you're doing it in flight as well, Nevs? Nevs. The cowlings, were they not the cowling black?

[00:29:46] Yeah, the cowling is in black on the Nakajima built ones, which it's strange because you think Mitsubishi is going to be majority of the majority of them are going to be built by them. And why would it be built by a competitor? It would be like Focke-Wulf building the majority of BF 109s. It's, it sounds strange, but that's the Nakajima just had the production capacity, which, and if you actually look at the two colors, aesthetically, I prefer the Nakajima one because it's that dark green.

[00:30:15] Whereas the Mitsubishi one is actually a much lighter green. Whereas in the cockpits, the Nakajima cockpit is lighter and the Mitsubishi one's darker and there's no mixing and matching. We can't mix and match it. It's either a Nakajima built aircraft or a Mitsubishi built aircraft. So, yeah, Mr. Color do all the colors. They do the full Nakajima range and they do the full Mitsubishi range. So they have both greens, both cockpit greens.

[00:30:42] The one for me is the Ataki blue for inside the airframe. That is debatable. You see, you have to be careful with it. So obviously I'm doing it in flight. I always like to do aircraft in flight because yes, they might've spent the majority of the aircraft time on the ground or in the Japanese case, either in the sea or blown up somewhere, but they were designed for flight. So what? Well, they were. Yeah.

[00:31:09] Why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you want to depict in flight? So I avoid a lot of that at Tory blue debate by doing in flight. Go on Brownie. Sorry. I'll let you go. I'm just going to say he's only in practicing for the new kit. He's going to be talking about in the stash inflation from Aoshima, the new. It's not. So this is a big bookmare of mine, particularly with Aoshima. The translation comes across as renewal version. It should just come across as Reeboks.

[00:31:36] Well, their idea of renewal is you chuck in a little fret of what they say is upgrade parts. It's just a retooled 25 millimeter gun mount, which you can have the most highly detailed 25 millimeter gun in the world. It doesn't detract through the fact that the rest of it is in early 2000s or 90s too. But the aircraft carriers actually got decals for their 1.700 aircraft on the deck. Yeah.

[00:32:01] I know you're a bit of a novice when it comes to a naval subjects apart from actually building a ship with me when you built Indianapolis, but yes, they do come with decals and a lot of the, particularly the flyhawk stuff. Now I've just bought in the enterprise for the shop that has in 700, the little squadron. I don't want to call them squadron codes cause cause that's a bit of a misnomer for the U S but the air group codes it has in 700 for those aircraft.

[00:32:30] So yeah, they're doing it at that tiny, tiny scale. Wow. Neves, you know that, that, sorry, just going back to, you know, that Iotaki blue or green, that was a protective primer, wasn't it? I'm sure I read it was like a primer that. Yeah. Generally inside the airframe. So the only one. Yeah. But isn't it, didn't it? But I'm not sure which way round.

[00:32:55] I would imagine it went on blue, but didn't it sort of degrade and almost change to a greeny color over time. So that gives you, is that right or not? Have I miss, miss, miss read that. I've seen shades varying from what I, from like a glossy metallic blue. Yeah. To quite often a turquoisey color through to a dull green, like you say. Right. Yeah.

[00:33:21] So like boulders is saying a lot of it, if you're doing it with its gear down in the wheel, in the wheel. Yeah. Bays. I don't know what you call them for aircraft models, but in the wheel wells there. Also, these are carrier aircraft. So they carry the arrestor gear towards the rear, which isn't literally, it's not just a stick out of the aircraft. A lot of the times they could retract into the aircraft. So the area around that. And of course the rear wheel bay as well. Yeah.

[00:33:51] You'd be looking at doing that, but yeah, thankfully, because I'm doing it in flight, not much of that's going to be seen. And to be honest, I do think when you get later in the war to the A6 M5s, what are they just doing in that cockpit cooler as well? Oh, really? Well, yeah. If you want to look at, if you can try and find a video, Permit Weeks has got a zero. Okay.

[00:34:15] And he goes through it and says like, you know, regarding the Ataki blue, because he's got one in bits. Yeah. And you're able to see through the rear undercarriage bay, see down the fuselage, the main wheel wells. Yeah. But I didn't know, and this was only recently, that on the zero, especially the naval version, they had three stripes on the undercarriage panel. Yeah. And that was to show how much fuel was actually in the aircraft.

[00:34:44] So if it was, if the top of the wheel was at the bottom of the, say the blue line, then they knew that aircraft was light on fuel. If it was at the red, they knew that it was ready to go. Oh, okay. How clever is that? Yeah. Because if you're literally in the Pacific and you've got Americans coming at you and you need to get aircraft up and you go and say, well, which ones aren't, you know, which ones fueled and everything else to go. All they had to do was look at the undercarriage panels for the main gear. And they say, right, that one's ready to go.

[00:35:14] And they get them up. So they would get up while they were refueling the rest. And I just thought it was an ingenious idea. So simple, but so effective. So effective. Exactly. Yeah. And you just reminded me, is there an A6M3 you're building this? No, no, no, no. Cause I was about to say A6M3 negates a lot of the advantages. Ah. Of the range. It's an A6M5. Right. Which itself, they all have little derivatives as well.

[00:35:42] So there's the A6M5A, B and C. So this is more or less sort of A6M5. And then it goes into A6M5A, which are kind of the same. So it's A6M5, this one. Right. They look exactly the same, all the zeros in furnace. It's not like you got a Spitfire Mark one to a Mark nine and you're like, well, it's just a Spitfire. You can see the differences for me for a zero. We gathered the, they all look exactly the same, apart from the one that's got the little winglets that come up on the end, which is obviously the navalized version.

[00:36:12] Yeah. Yeah. I was just interested to find out about your, you're displaying in flight. So how are you going to do that? You can do a prop blur for the front of it or? I'm thinking, I'm thinking about that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you've seen the half built Spitfire, haven't you with the wooden base. So I've got the same wooden base again. The idea will be because they're hexagonal, you can put them in formation flying. Yeah.

[00:36:38] They're never going to fly wing tip to wing tip in real life, but just for sake of display. So I've got the acrylic rod and then the magnetized at the top and these near neo dimmium magnets, however you pronounce it very strong, even though the tiny. So, and it makes painting and things a lot easier because you can just lift it off, paint it. If you want the top to dry, keep it on there.

[00:37:03] And what I'm going to do, I'm going to get a display name plate put on one side of them to say, okay, this is aircraft 601-01 from 601 Cockatai from November of 1944 or January of 1945. And I'm going to use some of the sea basing techniques that Wongi have come up with for the base.

[00:37:26] The only problem is do I then have to do all of the bases at once because all the waves need to go the same way, the same sort of colour modulation. If I was to do one base at a time, one's fighting it to knee and the other one's fighting it to a gym and it would look different. So that's the only problem with that. Well, instead of acrylic rod, you could have mounted on a chopstick, couldn't you? I think I have done it at one point. I do. Yeah, I think we've all. I think I did.

[00:37:56] A skewer, you know, yeah. Or as the Japanese would call it a hashi. Yeah. A hashi. You do know that the Zero was influenced by a British aircraft. Yes. There's a lot of debate on where the Zero design came from. And even the Japanese themselves have looked at the design of a British aircraft and there's more than 15 points of design that go to this aircraft. And it's called the Gloucester F5 slash 34.

[00:38:25] And if you look at it, you'll see exactly what it looks like because it's so uncanny. It is unbelievable. I think I've seen this and you're right. Oh my God. I've just Googled it. See? I think you're right. Because it looks really just. The F5 slash 34 Gloucester was designed in the late thirties. It never went ahead. There was two prototypes built.

[00:38:52] And because the hurricane and the Spitfire were coming out, it got shelved. Could you imagine if Gloucester would have actually produced it for naval combat? Might've been a bit of a different history regarding, you know, considering we had the rock, the skewer. And model kit wise, is it Planet models do that kit? Yes, they do. Planet models did a resin kit of it. Yeah. But I think in one 70 second scale. Yeah. It needs to be 30 second. I think that needs to be 3D printed.

[00:39:22] I think somebody needs to bring that out because it's so uncanny. It is. If you put that in area markers, they go, Oh, it's a zero. No, it's not. It's a Gloucester F5 slash 34. No. Yeah. And what a different subject to be on a table or in a display cabinet. Very, very. Exactly. Cause it will get people top. Absolutely. Yeah. From the spinner, the cow. So the high points of the hot pits, the tail section. It's just so uncanny. It's unbelievable.

[00:39:52] Hmm. That is crazy. Isn't it? How a British aircraft actually caused the Japanese to, but the thing is the Japanese could have knits the drawings. We don't know with stuff like that, with spies and thought, well, this will be good because all right, the zero had no arm, but yeah, it could out turn. And pretty much everything. And the way the, they were doing aerial combat, it was unbelievable.

[00:40:17] And it was only for a guy that was an aircraft mechanic that managed to tweak something on the P 38 lightning. The lightning then could out turn a zero. There was so much slack in the rear rudder and the elevator at the back that the guy pinched it, tightened it up and then took the guy to go up and they just out turned. Then the Japanese absolutely crapped themselves because then the P 38 were knocking the zeros out the sky quicker than anything else.

[00:40:46] And it turned the tide of the wall within nine months. It's just bizarre now. It's everything comes to fruition basically. Sorry for rabbits, you know, but I know it can be boring, but. No, it's fascinating. There's only two of the F 5 34s built, which registration for the most photographed one was K 5 6 0 4. I can't remember what the other was, but you know, registration is virtually the same as the, um, Predator Light Spitfire. It's in the same rain.

[00:41:15] Don't tell Mark at Kataria, one who produced it is a kit. I think even this is a bit obscure for Mark. I think. I don't know. Some of the stuff he was looking at at Delford while we were talking to commercial airliners and whatnot. So. Good point. Well made. Yes. Yeah. The F 5 slash 34 was designed by the same guy that did the fallen nap. Teddy Petter. Wow. That's a useless fact. Oh no, sorry. No, it wasn't. Sorry.

[00:41:41] It's the guy who designed it went on to do the fallen aircraft company, which then did the fallen nap. Is it was Henry Folland that Henry? Yes. It designed. He worked for Gloucester at the time, did the F 5 slash 34. And then obviously went on to create the fallen aircraft company that produced the fallen that which then got swallowed up by or consider. And that is why there were only ever the fighter variant were called fallen.

[00:42:09] That's all of the Royal Air Force. That's where Hawker Sidley. I mean that's every single kit that's got fallen on, including a large quantity of kits by a company with big red boxes have all got it wrong. The name plate inside the aircraft is firmly stamped Hawker Sidley on the construction plate, not fallen. But on with that one. Neves, have you been actually spending any cash? Yeah. I can't believe you've gone a month and actually haven't spent anything. No, unfortunately I have.

[00:42:40] I don't spend at the model shows, but like I say, so I've got the red box. I've got the IGA crew as well, which I'm not as much of a fan of, but like I say, I would recommend the IGN crew if you do want to depict your aircraft either in flight or on the ground because they've got mechanics with them as well. Recently got a big shipment in from China for the business. So I do usually put my money where my mouth is. Easy for you to say. So I picked up some of the flyhawk kits.

[00:43:07] I got the Admiral Shear in 700 scale, which was interesting. I'm not a big fan of the Deutschland class. I must be honest. I don't find them very aesthetically pleasing, but the Admiral Shear with it being a little more obscure than the Graf Spee is interesting. HMS Legion, which I've been after for a while. I do like the, the British destroyers all the way from the tribals through to the M class. Very famous destroyer as well. Cause it was the last one to get the crew off the art Royal when she got. Yeah.

[00:43:37] And that's on the box art. That's on the box art. So that'll be an interesting build. I do prefer the tribals and the K class for having the slightly bigger gun mounts rather than anti-aircraft mounts, but nevertheless. And then the other big purchase for the shop, getting a big range of the S model kits. I don't know if you've heard of them. They do armor kits in 72nd scale. And they're really fascinating cause they pick the most obscure subjects that just don't get

[00:44:05] covered and they give you two in a box. They're kind of a little bit like the it's a fast build ones, but there's more detail to them. And they've got a little bit of photo etch as well. So I picked up for both to have a look at myself and for the shock. There's a whole range of the pans are ones in both the early, early production variant, the AUSB as well.

[00:44:31] One that served with the Africa core with the variant with the fuel tanks on the back for the shot. I've got the Panzer II, got the Panzer III. They do lots of different subjects. They even do the M113, which is, you'd know from like Vietnam in terms of the AFVs. So I just got a whole range of those. So I picked up two of each and I might get around to building one if I fancy it. I do quite fancy building a Panzer I in the desert.

[00:45:00] Perhaps I'm sure I've seen a picture of one that's captured by the Americans and it has some stars on the turret. And I think that would be really interesting, but you can also do, obviously the Chinese had them and those, some of those were captured by the Japanese. So you can do a third hand tank produced in Germany, served in China, paraded in Tokyo. That would be an interesting build as well. Yeah, hell of a big plate on the bottom of the kit.

[00:45:30] Well, just to explain what's going on. Yeah, exactly. So here's a question for you. I've noticed being a non-armour builder. In the last few years, we're seeing a proliferation of 148th armour. And now people seem to be shifting across from the 176 to 172nd. Is that because of the number of aircraft models and stuff that you've actually got available in the reverse way that the 135th is now starting to refer aircraft onto armour?

[00:45:59] Why have they suddenly started going down the 172nd routes to the 176th? It's always been 72nd though, Brownie. It's just that all the Matchbox was 76 or the Airfic for 76. And also the Eshi was 76. The Airfic for 6 particular brand, they said. Yeah, because they did it for Railway. Because they did it for Railway. Because Railway was 00 gauge or show gauge, which is 1 to 76.

[00:46:26] They did it so that people could then, you know, do, you know, get a German BR52 on a BR56, put loads of panzers on it, tigers, whatever. Same for the Allied, you know, just have a, you know, jinty pushing back stuff that was in. But yeah, it was always 76 because it co-aligned with the Railway. But then I think Ravel started bringing out 72nd because one of their best kits is the Challenger.

[00:46:54] The Challenger 1 they did in 72nd. Absolutely cracking little kit for 72nd. Their King Tiger as well is really good. Yeah, yeah. The best King Tiger I've ever seen is model collect. When I worked obviously in a model shop, I had full interior and crew for a 72nd King Tiger. They were okay. Full engine detail, gearbox, transmission, you name it. It was in there. And I was like, do you know what? It's absolutely superb.

[00:47:23] But once you put it all together, it's never going to be seen. And the only problem with that is they chose to do the pre-production turret version. Yes, they did. Of which there's only... They did the, was it the Porsche turret? No, no, let's not call it that McBoulders. It's not the Porsche turret. It's the pre-production turret. Let's get it right. It was designed by Ferdinand Porsche. So pre-production one was. Anyway, going back to the subject. Airfix have just released something which Dan's going to be talking about very shortly,

[00:47:52] but a 176 4x4 tactical aircraft refueler. Why are they still going down the 76th route and the 72nd? Well, I think that was a, I think that was a miss. Was that a misprint on there? No, no, that is a 76. That's 76. Oh, it's the J. That's the JB models. There's not much new about that. That's the JB models, isn't it? I think it's the wrong. Cause I think it's the, I think it, that original Bedford refueler. Yeah. No, that is the JB models one.

[00:48:21] They're all the JB ones. There's nothing new about them. I don't know what they're playing out there saying new. Cause it's not. And that's the second or third time they've put them out over the years, isn't it? Cause they were in the gray. They were in the, with the paint, the actual painted artwork and then the sort of gray, grayish boxes. But that was that hella days. Is that hella or humbrol? Yeah. Humbrol or hella days. The early two thousands days that I think it might've been the early Hornby days. Yeah.

[00:48:49] JB was acquired in the early 2000 before Hornby went bum with hella in 2006. They're not bad. I mean, hopefully if they see sense, those vehicles are plum for 35th scale releases because they've done, they're doing that era. They need to do some soft skins now in 35th scale. Anyway, whilst you've got the mic down and I take it you finished nevs. And whilst we're remembering, obviously I'm plugged for your shop.

[00:49:18] What was the site address? pondstones.summitstore.com. So I've listed the latest fly hop kits on eBay after some advice, cause they go, they snap up quite quickly on there. But if you want them at a much cheaper price, buy direct off my website. Oh, that your shop should come with a spend warning nevs because your prices are very, very good. And it's very easy to spend a lot of money with nevs. So buyer beware, but good luck mate. I'm so happy it's going well for you. Yep. Agreed.

[00:49:48] Okay, Dan. Yes, mate. I've been, uh, I've been in B 17 heaven this weekend. My Piccadilly Lily one 48. H K slash Edward kit was on the bench before this weekend. Just gone. It was sitting in primer for ages and I was like, right, I really need to get this done. Now I want to get it done.

[00:50:11] Cause for all the reasons, you know, it's the squirrels make an appearance so many times in this blimmin hobby, don't they? And then the other models that you've built the shelf queen, so to speak, the saying, Oh, you've just got something else. Have you any chance of finishing me? So I was all set to get plain tin and then bang this hot weather hit. And I was like, for God's sake, I, my mojo was up to get back on this B 17, get it done.

[00:50:38] And then they're plagued by hot weather conditions for spraying. So I did find a weekend where it cooled a little bit and I managed to, so basically finished work, come home on the Friday and got it painted that evening. And then the next day I got the decals on and now the engines fitted, the wings are fitted.

[00:51:03] Cause they obviously all had to be painted separately cause it's massive that each wing section is so big. It doesn't quite fit in the booth to try and paint it. And when you spray with lacquers, you need the part in the booth because when you need the airbrush in the booth as much as you can get for the thing to work, to get exhaust, the fumes coming out. Um, so yeah, it's in decals and I've already started weathering the underneath.

[00:51:29] Um, I've just got the propellers to do and the guns to reattach and the landing gear to do. And she's, she's nearly ready for display. So anyway, B 17 heaven this weekend, I of course, went to the Duxford Americans air show and in the, with the sort of IPMS guys, because they invited the scale model displays to set up in the America's hall.

[00:51:57] So the U S air force sick with their, the chap, I cannot remember his name. It may be Adrian, the guy with the Duxford display. He had a few sections of his Duxford display, not the whole thing. And we were there with a sort of mixed table, but mainly U S air force bits and pieces. Mr. Regan was there, former president IPMS. My good friend Dan Whitelock bought all of his B 17s.

[00:52:23] Um, we sat under the nose of a B 17 that's in that hall all day. And it was absolutely fantastic. We got to see Sally B fly. But before that we took a little walk down to Sally B and a bit of a culmination of all my B 17 journey of discovery and visiting all of these air bases. And I was very blessed to be able to get on board and do the tour of Sally B. And I could have cried.

[00:52:52] I was so, so happy. Very, very emotional. That may have been to do with the heat because we were warned before we went on that it was reading 98% humidity in there and kicking 45 degrees. Um, in that metal tube. And just to go through that rear door, that little rear door at the back straight away.

[00:53:15] I thought, Oh my God, how did these boys get in this thing and fight either with the staggered waist guns? Um, it's just so much smaller than what you think it's going to be in there, you know, back to back rattling around. And, um, the chat that gave us the tour inside, he said, just imagine that your, your tail gun has run out of ammo.

[00:53:40] Your, your two waist gunners are dead and you've got to get, you've got to carry ammo all the way down through that aircraft past the great big housing where the rear wheel comes up and try and squeeze down the side while that thing's bobbing and bucketing around in the air. Yeah. It just getting near those aircraft and particularly for me getting inside all the stories that I've read and all of the learning and journey of discovery that I've been on.

[00:54:09] That was a real culmination point for me. And I am eternally thank you, thankful for all of the Sally B ground crew and my good friend, Dan Whitelock, who, who made that happen for me. So yeah, I've had an absolutely fantastic weekend. And you are not going to smell WD 40 without his warm again, in the same way without thinking of that experience. Oh, I know. Yeah, I know. Even just little things that we were sort of sitting there.

[00:54:37] I will say there were two other chaps in there with us as well as our little group that were touring. And the guy that did the tour said we were answering sort of questions with, with it in some respects more than what he knew. And he's like, you guys obviously know what you're doing in here. So we just all sat and chatted in the radio room of a B 17 because they've got some, some airliner seats in there.

[00:55:00] And we were like, Oh yeah. So that's where the radios would be. And that's, there's the bailout bell and Oh, look, what, where do those wires go? And it's just so much smaller than what you imagine in there. The Bombay you'd look and I know people go, Oh B 17, the bomb, you know, Bombay was tiny. It really is tiny. I mean, a different bomber for a different doctor. And I know it's not a Lancaster's different mindset.

[00:55:23] So that's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison, but yeah, just fantastic. I mean, the skin you sort of, you, it's very tactile when you're in there, you want to touch and you want to get a feel. It's such a weird experience because that's how you, we all build models of these things, but you don't know the scale thickness of the fuselage sides.

[00:55:43] I mean, it's literally like a baking tray and you can just imagine, you know, hot jagged lumps of flak tearing through that thing. There was no protection in there. There just wasn't any protection. That was the most dangerous place to be up there at one point in the war. Um, one to, uh, well, four to one chance of, of survival up in a B 17 or a liberator. Just incredible. It really was.

[00:56:12] It does make you look at your models when you're actually, um, putting this, uh, an open door or undercarriage bay and you look at the skin that this is actually attaching to. And you're just thinking on the real aircraft, that'd be three or four inches thick in reality. It's just, yeah.

[00:56:30] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The scale thickness. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say with armor as well, if anybody gets a chance to go to the tank museum down in Dorset and if they have their days when you can get and climb on something, but to be honest with you there, you can touch most of the tanks, you know, everything's, you can't do much damage to a tank sitting in a display hall and, you know, touch the metal and tap stuff.

[00:56:52] And you get an idea of how thick stuff is and yeah, just get out to museums and visit these places because there's a lot of crossover between modelers and museums, books and YouTube and whatnot can only tell you so much, but there's nothing like getting out and visiting these places and getting up close to the real machines that we build.

[00:57:14] And the same, even if that, you know, if you're, if you build cars, Formula One cars and stuff go to, you know, anywhere that's got Formula One cars and get up close and you see all of the, the little carbon fiber bits and pieces and the beautiful engineered hoses and fittings and stuff that's on there. Yeah. It's great. I love the crossover of models and history and the hobby. It's awesome. The only word.

[00:57:41] Yeah. I can vouch for how happy Dan was as well, because I bumped into him at the end of, made sure we went and visited him and said hello on Friday and he was, yeah, he was extremely happy. He was, you mentioned about the, the model display there as well. Cause you had the, you know, the IPMS guys and it was, it's a tiny flying legends, isn't it? When you refer to the Duxford display. That's him. Yeah. Yeah. Really, really nice chap. Yep. Yeah. Kieran. That's him. Kieran. Yep. Kieran has, yeah, like a miniature Duxford, which it comes on tour, doesn't it?

[00:58:09] Yeah. So we would have seen it for those that are local to the East Anglia region. He tends to bring it to St. Ives. He's, he's had it there a few times at the Brampton show. Yeah. But it's modular. So he can do the whole thing or, or just a few sections of it. It's great. It's really nice. And he keeps adding to it. And he's even done gazebos that, that set up at the air show. It's fantastic. Really is fair play to him. Yeah. No, it's brilliant. Yeah. And he's also got like the British airline,

[00:58:37] like a British airliner collection. Planes on there as well. So yeah, it does a brilliant job. And yeah, like I said, he's a top bloke as well. So yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Sally B, Piccadilly Lily is on my bench at the moment and she's not leaving until she's finished her routine. Okay. Who have we got left? Boulders. Oh. Look at this talking chair. Epic monster. I've just dropped a bloody part. Giza. Oh dear. It's not photo edge, is it?

[00:59:05] No, it's a piece of plastic about that big. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Oh, photo edge goes ping. It's not being put on. Sod that. Can't be bothered with that. Stressing over a piece of thing that's about three millimeters in diameter. If that. Yeah, if that. What's on the bench? My secret project is on the bench. For the annual build competition is September.

[00:59:27] So I'm just cracking on with that and having a play with the ammo lock and load pencil. Absolutely love it. I think it's the, I just think it's superb. Doing chipping. Absolutely superb. Just little nicks, stuff like that. Instead of doing painting silver, putting chipping fluid on and then having to take it off with a toothpick. This is just easier. Paint it black and just go around the edges. Absolutely superb bit of kit.

[00:59:52] So yeah, that's what's on the bench at the moment. I'll give you a clue. It is not a boat. I've gone back to aircraft for this one. So I'm looking forward to it. Got a set of decals for it. I'm doing a completely different scheme. It's an unusual scheme and I quite like the look of it. So I just think it'll be better than the standard scheme that it would have been in.

[01:00:15] It just gives it a bit more. So yeah, sorry guys, it is being kept secret because I don't want other people to know what's doing it because they wouldn't be fair on the judging process because you actually listen to this podcast. So that's why it's not being said. So yeah, that's what's on the bench at the minute. Spending money. Yeah. Set of decals. That's about it.

[01:00:36] Well, I have made a monstrous purchase at the weekend where I've spent £4,000. So great outs. That's for another expensive popper, which probably won't be on this podcast. You're being rather coy about that. Extremely coy about it. Extremely coy. I've bought a brand new pond set up off a guy, funny enough, in not far from us, Browner. Doesn't want to do it anymore. He's out, it's not in it.

[01:01:00] So when we went and had a look at it, it comes with its own fish, which is going to be another problem for me to deal with because it was like, I'll just take the setup. He went, no, need to take the fish. So we've got the fish as well. So yeah. Have you ever seen any models of coy fish? Some 3D printed ones in 35th scale. I actually seen a vignette, absolutely stunning vignette.

[01:01:24] And I can't remember where it was from. And it was basically based in Japan. It was a little bridge with a little section of the pond with coy in it. And there was a Japanese girl with a Japanese soldier. And it was absolutely elegant. And they had a cherry blossom tree and it just seriously took my breath away.

[01:01:44] And for me, it's like, I'm not particularly into vignettes, I doubt it, but this one just knocked it out the park and it done its job because I was just stood there watching, just watching it for, oh, sorry, not watching it, looking at it for ages. Absolutely sublime. Figures were painted superbly. They got the water right. It had a little trickling waterfall. They got the running water absolutely bang on.

[01:02:09] Bit of foam at the bottom. Obviously it was like a rockery style, gentle grade waterfall. Absolutely sublime. But yeah, there was. Yeah, I reckon that's a very, very sort of figure painting. I'm sort of visioning, you know, like a coy sort of sweeping round on a 3D print, sort of a biggish scale. I'm not explaining this very well. I just, have I seen one or not? Or is that something totally an untapped mark?

[01:02:37] Can you imagine someone doing a real good painter, doing like the water shimmer that you get with your under the water and you look up? Yeah. So to be honest, sorry, Brown, this is going to be modeling points. With coy tar, there are different breeds. So you've got your solid colors, but then you've got your gin ring. Now the gin ring is metallic. So these are fish. So I've got some in my pond at the moment.

[01:03:04] So I've got one that's called a tancho, which is all white with a red dot on its head. And that is a gin ring because it's got pearlescent scales going down the side. Try and replicate that. And I'll tell you, I would love to see it. Any figure painter that would be able to replicate that, I guarantee it would be a sure winner. Guaranteed because it's so complicated to get those colors.

[01:03:27] Because like I said, the pearlescence, you can see the pinks, the purples, the yellows within that scale. It's unbelievable. And then you've got another one called a high up sore, which would be black and orange. But then the orange has got gold in it. And so it's almost like you've been almost riding maybe car automotive style paints as well for shimmer effects and pearlescence. Yeah. Possibly like SMS with the pearlescence and stuff like that.

[01:03:56] But obviously it would be, you know, you'd have to mask every scale up and spray them individually to get the difference. Because they don't all look the same. Each scale's different. It's got a different shimmer to it. Some might have a little bit of green in. They're absolutely sublime. But if I see one of them, I'd vote for it. Animals are. You don't see many animals. You see a lot of horses on military dioramas now and again.

[01:04:21] But and you might see I've done a little dog on a British Army con diorama that I'd want more of a vignette with two guys and a captive swim wagon that I did. And I included a little dog in that. They were just cast resin. And I think you've got a cat in the box and bits and pieces from my arty diorama. But bigger scale animals. I'm surprised because they're still a scale version of the real thing, aren't they?

[01:04:50] And do you, you know, do you paint them all very, very realistic or just, you just don't see, you don't tend to see them much, do you? No. So primarily for me, it would be like my mind's gone blank. Who was the lovely lady we had on last episode? Margot. Margot. Yeah. That would be something that Margot would probably have a crack at because Margot is, that's, yeah, that's what I'm sort of thinking with colors. Seriously talented and she'd be able.

[01:05:20] And like you say, if you did it in, it's like resin, clear resin, so you could see the underneath. So you've got the water shimmer at the bottom. Yeah. And then coming up, you've got the wet look with the scales. I would love to see it. Absolutely love to see something like that. But you're right. Nobody does any other. They might do it in Japan. The model scenes in Japan. There's certainly no commercial. Yeah. That's what I thought.

[01:05:44] With Koi, I'm surprised that there's not a manufacturer that does, that does models of them for you to sort of have a go at painting. Even if they're very, very small, you know, they don't have to be huge. When you think of the airfix did the range of birds and the other animals that are unavailable, why has nobody done the fish? Is it just the difficulty in actually displaying them, perhaps? I don't think it's displaying them. You could put it on a stand. You could literally, yeah.

[01:06:12] I suppose if they were traditional injection molding, if they were injection molded, they'd have to be, I'm thinking along the line of the dinosaurs. So the dinosaurs have probably got about six, five or six parts to them. And I wonder if that's how they would do it, if they were going to do it. I mean, at the end of the day, it's if they would sell. They're probably a very niche hobby. So it probably does lend itself more towards 3D.

[01:06:39] You'd be surprised at how big the Koi community, obviously the Japanese Koi cap community is. You know, there's loads. Oh, I get it. Yeah. That's obviously huge. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it of my favorite fish and I'm going to do it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, stuff like that. But no, I would, I would definitely like to see something like that on the model scene. Cause like you said, there's just no, cause everybody seems to do the same. Nobody thinks outside the box and goes, do you know what?

[01:07:08] I'm going to do a vignette of, you know, two Koi swimming like in yin yang, because that's basically what that's supposed to represent. Yeah. Yeah. And have them in water and just see what it would be like. Cause I think it would be definitely a talking point because they got up. Never anything like that. I definitely, I'm sure I saw a, I'm sure I saw a, I think it was a mermaid. Is it for a mermaid or something? But it was depicted as being underwater. Yeah. A mermaid of Alma time.

[01:07:35] But it had a background that had the shimmer. So it, but the actual figure itself was also painted with the shimmer effect over the top of the colors. So it wasn't set in resin or anything like that. No. But when you looked at it, it gave you the impression that it was underwater, that you were viewing it underwater, but it wasn't underwater.

[01:07:56] So can you imagine two Koi carp with all their colors on and that water shimmer effect over the top of it, I think would be absolutely incredible. Way above my skill levels. But to be honest, I was just going to make a bit of a joke that maybe these kits are already out there, but because they fall under naveled subjects in the waterline, you just can't see them. Oh, we're in people. Yeah. Oh dear. Plastic fish.

[01:08:46] Plastic fish. What we would use navel. Like you say, automotive paints, because there's that many palescents and stuff like that. But yeah, just let us know. We'll be interested to see. Who says we don't just talk about airplanes and armor? Exactly. Yeah. Sorry, Browler, for bringing fish into it. Oh, well, you just keep, you know, not even going to go down that route. Well, go on. You might as well.

[01:09:15] I have two hobbies. No, no, no, no, not going to go down that route. So with that, we will take a short break and come back with this episode's stash inflation report. Beyond the Box Art is proudly supported by Guideline Publications. Ammo by Mick Jimenez. The Scale Modellers Supply and Fishcop Model Company, their backing helps keep the show running.

[01:09:42] So we can encourage you to support deserving modeling charities instead. Fishcop Models, elevating scale modeling to an art form. Experience highly detailed 3D printed upgrade parts that bring true authenticity to your builds. Creators of the acclaimed Rolls-Royce Merlin engine set for both the Kotare Spitfire and the Dambusters set for the Border Models Avro Lancaster.

[01:10:10] For bespoke design and printing, our service is as precise as it is personal, all at a reasonable price. Please take a look at our products on www.fishcopcompany.de. Shipping is available for all of our products worldwide. The bank balance is nervous, the shelves are full, and temptation is everywhere. Welcome back to another dangerously persuasive stash inflation report.

[01:10:37] Right then, Benchmates, it's that time again for the stash inflation report. The part of the show where we carefully monitor the latest releases from around the modeling world, and then provide absolute no practical assistance whatsoever in resisting them. As ever, I'm kicking things off with aviation. Dan will shortly be along with Armour. Neves will be examining whatever's currently floating, sinking or lurking around a dot yard. And Shane will finish the financial devastation with gunplay and science fiction.

[01:11:04] So hide a bank statement, clear another shelf in the stash, and let's see what's incoming. Pora have three rather interesting releases in 72nd scale, starting with the Fokker America Model 8 Super Universal, covering aircraft from South Africa and America and Colombia. It's a complete plastic kit and it comes with three decal options, so there's a little more choice here than simply another familiar military scheme. Sticking with Super Universal theme, there is also a Manchu Fokker Super Universal,

[01:11:34] this time covering China Airway and the Japanese Army, again as a complete plastic kit with three decal options. Definitely something for anyone who likes the more unusual corners of the interwar aviation. And completing Cora's trio, the Fiat Ansaldo A120 Addy Foreign Service, again in 72nd scale, and a complete plastic kit, and again supply with three decal options. Three decidedly less mainstream subjects from Cora,

[01:12:02] and therefore three perfectly legitimate reasons to explain why another parcel has arrived. Fire molds are adding a couple of more Eagles to the excellent 1-72nd range, with the new F15E on the way. They're also releasing an Israeli F15 RAM, giving anyone with an Eagle problem another perfectly reasonable excuse to add one more to the collection. Because obviously the F15 you already have in the stash is completely different, apparently.

[01:12:29] Micromia have something rather more unusual, who are releasing our RAF SE-1 in 48 scale. That's certainly not something we'd see kitted every five minutes, and it should appeal particularly to anyone interested in the very early development of British military aviation. It's unusual, it's British, and it's 48. Frankly, Brownie has a problem already, cleared space for it. Zukimura are moving considerably upwards in size,

[01:12:57] and are releasing a 1-32nd Kawasaki KI-100. Given Zukimura's reputation for taking the phrase that'll do, and throwing it straight out the window, this could be a very impressive addition for Japanese aircraft fans. And at 30 seconds, you're not so much adding to the stash as you're allocating its own postcode. Mini-Art continued to build out the 48 scale Thunderbolt family, this time with a P-40M featuring the dorsal fin. Another variation of the jug, another attractive box in the model shot,

[01:13:28] and another opportunity for a P-47 enthusiast to explain why this one is absolutely essential, despite the other Thunderbolts already occupying half the cupboard. You know who you are. Trumpeter are bringing us something a little more modern, with the 1-48 Chang'e Z-10 attack helicopter. It's an imposing looking Chinese attack helicopter, and a subject we don't see represented particularly often in quarter scale. So if your helicopter collection has been looking a little too near to heavy lately,

[01:13:57] Trumpeter appeared determined to correct the balance. Finally, for aviation, Kinetica releasing a 1-48 F-18C Hornet in Kuwait Air Force markings. And the box art is interesting on this one. I'm going to leave that description hanging there, because to say that the subject which involves three Lakenheath-based F-15Es has become a tad decisive is an understatement. And with that, aviation has once again done its bit to ensure nobody's listening vitais

[01:14:26] with unnecessary disposable income. So I shall now hand you over to Dan, who is waiting patiently with the latest Army releases and several tons of extremely expensive plastic. Dan, what have you got for us? Thanks, Boulders. We'll kick things off this time with Tamiya, who continued to revisit some absolute classics with the announcement of a brand new tooling 1.35 scale RSO-01 German tractor,

[01:14:53] depicting the post-spring 1943 version. Scheduled for release on the 5th of August, this compact little workhorse measures 126mm long and 64mm wide, with the price still to be confirmed. The Rauppenschlepper Ost was never glamorous, but it certainly earned its reputation. Designed to cope with the mud and snow of the eastern front, where conventional trucks simply bogged down, the RSO became invaluable logistics vehicle.

[01:15:24] If you enjoy building support vehicles or creating realistic wartime dioramas, this looks like another very welcome addition to Tamiya's ever-growing armour range, and I think it'll be a great companion to the Pac-40 kit released last year. Next, we head over to Resgit, who have released a whole family of 1.35 scale Kubelwagen Type 82 wheel sets designed for the Meng, Dragon and Tamiya kits. There are two off-road tyre options and three different sand tyre variations,

[01:15:53] all beautifully 3D printed with crisp tread patterns, accurate hub detail, and replacement front torsion bars included. Whether you're building an eastern front utility vehicle or a dusty North African desert patrol, these upgrades let you match period photographs far more accurately than the standard kit wheels. It's one of those subtle additions that can really transform the finished model without breaking the bank. They're available now directly from Resgit.

[01:16:23] Finally, T-Rex Studio continue their excellent run of aftermarket upgrades with a 1.35 M24 Chaffee European Theatre running gear set designed specifically for the Tamiya kit. If you've used T-Rex products before, you'll know exactly what to expect. Beautifully engineered detail designed to replace some of the finer suspension and running gear components. Adding to that level of realism for anyone looking to take their Chaffee to competition standard.

[01:16:52] That's all from me this episode. I'll park up the armour before I start adding more to everyone's stash and hand over to Nevz, who's hopefully got calmer waters ahead with this episode's naval news. Thanks Dan. We'll start with some German naval subjects, where Trumpeter are finally giving the Scharnhorst her sister back, with the announcement of a brand new 1-350th scale Nisenau, due later this year.

[01:17:21] The two battleships shared much of their wartime service, but although they looked similar, there were some important differences. Nisenau featured a shorter aircraft handling area aft of the main superstructure, and never received the extensive wartime modifications or the striking camouflage schemes that make Scharnhorst such a popular modelling subject.

[01:17:48] Sadly, Nisenau's story ended rather differently. Following Hitler's decision to curtail the surface fleet, her main guns were removed for use in Atlantic Wall coastal batteries, before the stripped-out hull was eventually scuttled as a block ship at Gdynia in 1945. Based on Trumpeter's recent Scharnhorst release, we'd expect another well-detailed injection-moulded kit,

[01:18:18] complete with a useful threat of photo etch. Release is expected between September and November 2026. So give Scharnhorst her sister back and purchase Dignis now this autumn. Staying with the Kriegsmarine, Sparler continued to add even more refinement to Revel's excellent 1-350th Bismarck with two new upgrade sets. The first is a beautifully detailed

[01:18:47] rigged accommodation ladder, while the second is a replacement flagstaff, complete with three resin flags, depicting different ways the flag naturally hangs or flies. They're small additions, but sometimes it's those finishing touches that really lift a model. And if you've got a Bismarck waiting in the stash, these are definitely worth a look. If you prefer your ships considerably larger,

[01:19:16] Pontos have announced an extraordinary upgrade set for Trumpeter's 1-200 USS Yorktown CV-5, representing the carrier as she appeared in 1940. And when I say comprehensive, I really do mean comprehensive. Inside you'll find a blue stained real wood deck, around 30 sheets of photo etch,

[01:19:42] approximately 150 resin parts, turned brass barrels for both the 20mm Ehrlichan and the distinctive 1.1-inch anti-aircraft guns, decals for the embarked air group with accurate aircraft markings, plus masking sets. Now all of that quality comes at a price, and you should expect this upgrade set to cost more than the kit itself. But if you're looking to turn an already impressive model

[01:20:12] into a genuine centrepiece, this is exactly the sort of investment that serious ship modelers will. Finally this week, Micromere continue their fascination with unusual naval subjects by releasing the French submarine Gymnott Q1 in 1-144 scale. Launched in 1888, Gymnott holds an important place in naval history.

[01:20:42] This is the first operational submarine to be successfully armed with torpedoes. Although she was lost in 1907, her pioneering design paved the way for the submarines that followed. The kit will be injection moulded with a small fret of photo etch, and it should retail in the UK for around £20-25, and it should be arriving with retailers very soon. If you're after something

[01:21:10] genuinely different for the display cabinet, this little piece of submarine history could be just the ticket. And that's everything making waves on the naval front this fortnight. Shane, I know you've been keeping an eye on the world of Gunpla and sci-fi kits. So over to you to see what's been tempting the wallet this week. Cheers, Nebs. Yes. Welcome to the part of the Stash Inflation Report where Sensible Engineering takes one look

[01:21:40] at that instruction manual, quietly closes it, and leaves the building. We begin with Inera Plus and the RMD Azure Falcon, arriving imminently with a price of around £80. Inera Plus have developed a strong following for producing large, highly detailed, original mecha kits that offer plenty of shelf presence without carrying quite the same financial threat as some of the premium Japanese releases. The Azure Falcon

[01:22:09] continues that approach with a sharply, heavily armoured design, plenty of layered mechanical detail, and the sort of silhouette that suggests subtlety was never part of this design brief. At £80, it certainly isn't an impulse purchase, but for builders who enjoy complex assemblies, extensive colour separation, and a finished model that dominates the display cabinet, this could prove very tempting indeed. Just make sure you clear the shelf

[01:22:39] before you start it. It's bigger than you think. Next, we have something a little different. from Aoshima, a 1, 450th Odeon animation colour version due for release in December at approximately £40. This is clearly aimed at collectors who prefer the bold, unmistakable appearance of the original animated presentation rather than the more subtle, realistic finish. At 1, 450th scale, it should offer

[01:23:09] a good balance between visible detail, manageable display space, while animation-inspired colours gives it plenty of immediate shelf appeal. With it arriving in December, makes it ideal timing for those modelers who receive some money at Christmas, manages to spend it before the family has even finished washing up. Moving on, Takayo Rabbit Factory have released a 1, 1, 4, 4, 4 scale Hazel custom coming in August, with the price still to be confirmed.

[01:23:39] Its distinctive proportions and heavily modified appearance have made it a firm favourite amongst fans for the Zeta designs. And at 1, 4, 4 scale, this should be relatively compact, although Hazel's collections of attachments, boosters and additional equipment means it may still occupy considerably more room than the scale suggests. Next, comes a particularly stealthy piece of P-Bandai Temptation, the Master Grade Super Deformed Wing Gundam Zero Endless Waltz

[01:24:08] in black. Scheduled to release for November at around £55. The MG SD range combines the exaggerated proportions of the Super Deformed kit, while much of the internal complexity, articulation and detail normally associated with the Master Grade releases. Wing Gundam Zero Endless Waltz already has one of the most recognisable designs in the Gundam universe, thanks largely to those enormous angelic wings. Producing it in black gives it an entire different look,

[01:24:37] more dramatic appearance. And at £55? It's firmly in the dangerous pre-order territory. Staying with P-Bandai, we also have the Master Grade 1-100 scale Gundam Heavy Arms Endless Waltz. This is being offered as a made-to-release order. Both the release date and the prizes are still to be confirmed, but rest assured it's coming in 27. Heavy Arms is of course the mobile suit created for anyone who looked at a conventional weapons loadout and asked why

[01:25:07] every available surface wasn't carrying another missile pod. with its chest-mounted gatling guns, shoulder weapons, leg-mounted missiles, general commitment overwhelming firepower, heavy arms were one of the most least subtle machines in the universe. The made-to-order status means this may not be something collectors can casually pick up later, so anyone interested will need to keep a close eye on the ordering window. Finally, we leave model kits behind

[01:25:37] and enter the significantly more expensive world of transforming toys. We are releasing AFC-01X Skunk's tactical pack Amiga Delta Alpha in February 2027, priced at approximately £170. That's quite a name and at £170, quite a commitment. The Legionus design is best known for the Genesis Climber and later international adaptations

[01:26:06] combining an aircraft and intermediate configuration and a humanoid combat mode. This toy-rise release adds the Skunk's tactical equipment packaging, giving the Legionus an even more heavily equipped and mission-ready appearance. The appeal here will be the transforming engineering, accessories, and display possibilities rather than the traditional building experience. Still, so, this time we have the imposing Azure Falcon,

[01:26:36] an animated coloured release from the Aoshima, the experimental Hazel Custom, a blacked out Wing Guns M-Zero, enough firepower to equip the small country courtesy of heavy arms, and the transforming carrying a price tag capable of achieving flight all by itself. The safest choice is probably by none of them, but, as this is the Stash Inflation Report, we all know that isn't going to happen. And that's everything from me this time. We'll take a quick break,

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[01:28:38] And now, our featured interview, conversations with the people shaping the hobby from individual modelers to leading manufacturers exploring every aspect of scale modeling together. Right, one of the true highlights of the international modeling calendar is almost upon us. every autumn, it's the middle of summer and we're talking about autumn already. How depressing is that? Anyway, every autumn, thousands of modelers

[01:29:08] from across Europe and increasingly from much further afield make the pilgrimage to Eindhoven for what many regard as one of the finest scale modeling events in the world. Scale Model Challenge has earned a reputation for breathtaking competition entries, world-class traders, inspirational displays and perhaps most importantly, an atmosphere unlike any other. It's an event that celebrates not just the models on the table but the people behind them. None of that happens by accident. Joining us today

[01:29:37] are the husband and wife team whose passion, vision and countless hours of hard work have helped make Scale Model Challenge the event is today. Margot and Robert Krumbecki, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for having us. Thank you. You are very welcome. Right, let's start with a really difficult question to both of you. What's currently on your workbench and are either of you actually going to get any modeling done before the show or is that simply wishful thinking? You want the short answer

[01:30:07] or the long answer? The short answer is... Let's go with the long answer. The short answer is nothing actually. Just some printed material that I need for the show because this is a time of year that I don't do much. I don't do much modeling actually. So, but I have some stuff on the workbench. I have an MAK robot. I have a Tiger II in the making. I have another one that I'm weathering and painting for somebody else. But that's a bit of a long-going project.

[01:30:37] Yeah. And a few figures that I have left and right that are in the process of being finished at some point in the future. So, that's it. Well, for me, it's... I have two really large busts. It's a Aracola. It's a bust that I have already since we organized World Mobile Expo. And I started that I think a couple of months ago in the beginning of this year. I have another one

[01:31:05] one from Fair Miniatures and that one I use for a completely different way of painting just to see how it works. And some smaller ones that I started but still didn't finish. So, a lot of unfinished things. So, I hope to finish one of them before the show. I hope so. But I cannot guarantee. How many people have not got something

[01:31:35] they haven't finished on the bench? Be fair. Oh, we see where... I don't believe a word of it. I know how many he started versus how many he's actually finished. But my output in the last couple of years has been very, very small. It's just that there's a lot of time that goes into organizing the show. I have a very busy day job to be honest. And sometimes in the evening I'm just... Well, my energy level is not that great anymore. So, yeah. I rather...

[01:32:05] I watch Netflix. Unfortunately. There's no lock on his door. So, otherwise I locked him in on his workbench because I think it's a shame that he is not doing more than he's doing now. But I understand why. You can get to overload. Yeah. And to be honest, the last couple of months I've been fiddling more on my bass guitars than I've been doing something on scale modeling. So, but even that is at a very low

[01:32:34] this moment. So, yeah. That's what it is. And I also started to go back to the canvas. So, a lot of things. So, I wanted to start already a couple of years ago but I was always busy with the figures and so now I started again to paint on canvas. So, a lot of things that I want to do and every day I want to paint the whole day and

[01:33:02] most of the days I mean you have to do the housekeeping all these things and I realized that I'm a little bit older than 40 and that the energy level is also less than at that time unfortunately. Yeah. And also the heat we're having in Europe at the moment is relatively unusual especially with the duration as well

[01:33:32] and that just saps the energy out of you. Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah. And we had a renovation. Oh yeah. We had a renovation in the house as well. That's right. So, yeah. So, it was quite a hectic period there and a costly one. Well, yes. But, you know, you have such a high paid job it's not a problem is it? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No worries. No worries. Yeah. Okay then. So, for anyone including myself who hasn't yet experienced Scale Model Challenge what makes it

[01:34:02] different from a traditional model show? If you've just 60 seconds to convince someone to visit Eindhoven this year what would you tell them? SMC is a show where we mix both worlds of figure painting and scale modeling where we try to cross the interests get people inspired by other people's work the atmosphere in general is more like friends meeting up from all over the world

[01:34:32] let know each other only from Facebook or social media they meet up I wouldn't say a family reunion is maybe a bit cheesy but that's what it sometimes feels like everybody is just eager to join in and sometimes for some people even trade area or the competition is second to the whole social event actually and also the mix of interests makes it different from most other shows

[01:35:01] because we value both the hobby so figures and scale modeling equally you don't have an app well in the competition the emphasis is pretty much on figures obviously because figure painters are very they paint a lot more than people would build models but still don't have an emphasis on either one of them for us both are very important and a lot of people say that it feels like home and when they arrive in Veldhove and they arrive at the venue they're so familiar with the venue

[01:35:31] and everything what's going on and I think big different well some shows are doing that already but we are giving children a lot of space to build and paint at the show so yeah for this year I'm working on it to invite 20 people that are not having money to do something with their children so we try to have

[01:36:01] two days 10 children so together 20 and they can come in for free and they can paint and they can build whatever and they get french fries a croquette typical dutch something to drink and they can stay the whole afternoon at the show and see at the competition and whatever but I'm still working on it to find the right people to be in contact because you need to find the right

[01:36:30] organization I have already contact but now they need to know what age whatever and they all can bring one of the parents also so that's something new for this year well the thing is a lot of people complain that youngster is coming into the hobby and you see shows where they actually make effort like I just told you I was on E-Day last month and there they had a large spot where kids could build and airbrush models and under

[01:37:00] guidance obviously a lot of shows don't tend to care about kids coming into the hobby so I'm trying to lobby with a lot of companies to support us for that kids corner obviously because you need kits and figures and paints and everything is given by different companies so the paints the figures everybody is working with us on this so that's one very special area and that's something that I hope

[01:37:30] we can do this for these 20 children and if it works we can do it every year I hope it works out for you as well what a brilliant initiative well done yeah it was Robert his idea thank you and I work it out yeah I have lots of ideas but I also need people to actually act upon it so yeah so hopefully yeah hopefully it works out yeah it would be great well to try and help you with that initiative I'll speak to you

[01:38:00] offline but we'd like to make a donation to help fund part of that for you oh really thank you so much wow thank you oh wow thank you wonderful thank you very much I'll message you afterwards and sort something out but yeah okay well and we keep you informed if we can arrange it for the children yeah yeah the special thing but we have a special thing but we have always the children's corner and I mean it's the whole day two days it's fully booked so they're standing in

[01:38:30] line and then we need to say to some children okay you have your time now somebody else need to do it so yeah okay done so can you take us back to the history of scale model challenge a little bit and give us an idea of what the original vision was and also are you surprised at just how influential it has become across the worldwide modeling community it seems to be the first show

[01:39:00] internationally on everybody's lips when they say to go to SMC you want to go to a good show go to SMC well to answer the last question yes I am still pretty much amazed that people talk about our show that way and I'm genuinely surprised also when I hear you say that I'm even moved by those words actually the thing is a long time ago I started modeling more actively in the club and everything else we

[01:39:29] visited shows and every show that we came back from there was something that I thought was missing from it and we also went to Euro Militaire back in the day and also there we found okay it was a brilliant show but in my opinion it was lacking something don't ask me exactly what that something was because I can't really put a finger on it but every time I came back home I said I can do that better than they could whoever they would be right then Margot

[01:39:59] at one point said to me oh if that's the case then well why don't you do it I said literally if you think you can do it better then you have to show it and just do it that was the kick and to be honest my first thing was that I've told this in other interviews as well obviously we have an IPMS nationals in the Netherlands and at that time I thought it was a very boring show and we also visited Belgian shows where the scale modeling

[01:40:29] level was much higher than what I saw on the IPMS nationals in the Netherlands and I thought in combination with that Euro Militaire visit every year I thought wouldn't it be great if the city that I live in would become an international center of the lobby once a year and so we started the show in 2007 and we had basically we had until 2015 it was only a one day show

[01:40:58] and I knew that if we wanted to attract more international people that we needed to a two day show so I unfolded those plans within the club let's say there were mixed feelings about that doing two days but looking back at it it was the best thing we ever did not only because we had more time to do our stuff and it was more relaxing actually because setting up everything in one day and breaking it down again on

[01:41:28] the same day organizing the whole competition when I look back at it I still wonder how we ever managed to do it at all and since 2016 it's a two day show so and then obviously at one point we I mean we started off as a show for military models and figures although figures were kind of limited to maybe when I say second world war figures busts and 135th scale figures

[01:41:57] and slowly but surely we had some historical painters coming and then obviously Margot started painting figures at one point and started and we started traveling and Margot started traveling more because she didn't have a day job and I did so I didn't have my days off every time and when Margot started traveling more to shows and also joint ventures abroad we attracted more and more especially figure painters from abroad so they caught up pretty quickly

[01:42:27] I think more scale modelers also internationally they came in a kind of organic it grew organically I guess I mean it's word to mouth isn't it from my side it was mostly the figure painters because I went to the figure painting competitions and so there I started to talk about the show and promoting so it was not only for entering the competition but also for most in the first

[01:42:57] place it was to promote the show so that was one year and in that year I did 12 shows in year international international yeah yeah no it's one in belgium international yeah and also in moscow but yeah three times really did you do any in the uk the euro military we go to ili okay yeah yeah ah really that's literally

[01:43:26] that's half an hour from me is that fmf the fan model show a fan model show ah wow yeah you'll be there this weekend that's the third time yeah fantastic yeah third time and that's actually the only shows i did in the uk yeah yeah after you were military there wasn't there was not so much yeah well there was in my what i knew obviously i'd certainly i've been to that fen model show a couple of times

[01:43:56] and it's quite clear that they are very influenced by you and the style that you set up the displays with the pedestals and the higher viewing platforms and the black tablecloths and the allotted space and the good lighting it's a fantastic format and the first time i went i went with my son and he's he's marvel superhero mad and he saw

[01:44:24] incredible hulks and spider-man figures and i mean that was the spark for him to go oh it's not just tanks and airplanes so in in poland contrast they have the same displays that we have and they adapted also our stuff i see well yeah we are a little bit an example for that to be very honest when i started the show and when we developed the show

[01:44:53] obviously i borrowed the good ideas from other shows as well i didn't invent the wheel i just left out the bad stuff i think all good shows that have grown i mean it the format seems to be growing rapidly and there's all of the different competition formats that things seem to be evolving and changing coming out of a past into this new era yeah i think with social media as well it really is evolving isn't it and people want quality when they're paying good

[01:45:23] money to go into a show and that includes being able to see well the very things you've paid to go and see you know exactly that's the most important thing well that's one of the things i always say also even when i do the judging briefing you know people pay money to enter the competition people pay money to enter the show you have to give them the money's worth judge every piece or look at every piece at least and that's what i also tell me

[01:45:53] that my fellow organizers you know if you charge people money to get in you have to give them something special and not just a bunch of tables where you smack some models on because everybody can do that yeah well i've not been yet and there was a chance of me coming to this year's show but that's now passed because of one-to-one scale life reasons we won't go into it okay i do aim to be there but i would like to come with my family because my partner

[01:46:23] she's very artistic um on canvas and likes to paint and i believe that van goff lived in eindhoven for a while it's near it's very close yeah right okay and i believe that there's the man factory as well and yeah sorry the daft factory yeah yeah that's right yeah yeah it sounds like a real weekender and a great city to visit as well obviously as well as

[01:46:52] the model show i mean people say every year oh my god smc was so good i just don't know how they're going to top it somehow you always seem to can you tell us what's new for this year's event that you're particularly excited about oh at first the children but i want to say robert said i didn't invent the wheel but i think he did he's always too humble he invent a lot of things but for me is yeah the children bringing the children into it

[01:47:22] and we have we've expanded the show we've extended it with a pavilion that's attached to one of the holes and that's actually bigger than the hole it's attached to ah okay in square meters where we're gonna be in that pavilion normally we don't mix certain things we have the trade or the vendors are separated from the clubs but in that pavilion we have a mix we have what we call the vintage market which is a posh name for the secondhand

[01:47:52] stuff i want to give it an extra some bit bit more class anyway now we have clubs in there as well we have the whole the kids section there which is our own kids club plus slovenia we have back to basics and really emphasize on learning kids how to build models and it's really is a really great extension of that corner clubs in there there's also traders over there the secondhand so that's good mix in that pavilion and we named

[01:48:21] it you named it yeah i named it after one of the guys in our club who passed away harry van ketzel and he was running the kids club for years at our show and he made the displays oh yeah he's also the guy that made our tiered displays but he passed away two years ago and so i thought it was a nice idea name that pavilion after him and so that's one thing i'm very excited about and we want to really want to push let people know that pavilion

[01:48:50] is there because they might miss it we're going to make sure that they can't miss it but you never know and then the other thing is that we'll have a new release our new product area so we have our glass cabinets that we're going to where all the vendors can display their newest releases so it's going to be placed straight when everybody comes in you can see the glass cabinets there and we're not gathering a real showcase yeah yeah they're all showcases

[01:49:20] and they can show their new stuff and we'll add you know the stand numbers there so people can look it up and so that's something so those are the physical new things and another new thing that we are working with is from Tom Arnish he's a German well you know him obviously I can see and he made he made an app it's called scale model events and it can contain a lot of information but also an interactive floor plan that we have so we're really going to see

[01:49:50] and it's also the site where we sell our tickets it's been tested before by German show we're using that system now as well but the interactive floor plan I think would be great is a great addition for the visitors because they can really look it up on the floor plan where a certain stand is and that's the floor plan is more or as ready it's not published yet but it's in the making and the nice thing is that particular we can send from the system we can send emails to those vendors

[01:50:19] and then they get a link and then they can update their own stand information they can put whatever they want to put in there their own logos the information they want and I think that's a very good addition and people can scan a QR code and those QR codes will be all over the venue they can scan it and then they can access the skill model challenge page they can see everything so those are three big changes for us and maybe that ticket thing might not sound as a big thing

[01:50:49] but we had a ticketing system where we had some issues with the connection when we had to scan a lot of tickets at the same time so that was a big issue every time and this is a brand new technology that he's using and Tom Hanes explained it to me and he says it's going to be great and I believe him so godspeed no pressure there but for us it's an important change and it's also something that is not entirely in my own

[01:51:19] hands anymore so that's something you have to get used to that's the big change most of the show is done by one person and that's Robert and we have a couple of people that one is doing the club the other one is doing the vendors but the whole year Robert is the only one who is doing contact with the vendors emails taxes the whole thing all administration thinking about new things so I always

[01:51:48] say it's a one man show yeah it's no wonder you don't get much time to actually model anymore I mean the show has earned a reputation really attracting some of the best modelers traders manufacturers around the world you've explained to us a hell of a lot of work goes in behind the scenes to create the show and make all of that happen when do you actually start planning for say next year's show the day after the day after yeah yeah that's that's a that sounds a common occurrence with many people

[01:52:18] that arrange shows yeah well that's when the ideas come and then I try to let it go for a couple of weeks but usually we invite the vendors about half January so before that I have to make sure that everything is fixed like the cost that we have every year so I have to make sure that we don't lose any money on the whole thing so I have to talk with the venue you know you need to sort out money wise what you're up against for next year so that

[01:52:48] starts and I've prepared the part of the website that is especially for the vendors so that there is some work there and then the whole thing starts and I think this year we started we send the invitation we have a mailing list for vendors and we send out an invitation to a lot of vendors on January 15 and I think within 48 hours we were fully booked this year which is ridiculous yeah that was also the reason why we have the pavilion actually because I saw at one point

[01:53:18] that I had as many vendors that I had in the year before and I thought okay now I'm full right so and only then I found afterwards when I started to make a sketch of the floor plan that I found out and a lot of vendors ask for more space than they had the year before so I couldn't fit them in no so I couldn't fit them all in so I wanted to find a solution which was the pavilion so yeah that's one of the reasons we have it yeah it's not that there are more vendors on a certain moment you need to stop yeah so the vendors

[01:53:47] are changing some are not coming back and some new are coming but if you have too many vendors it works for nobody because it's too much competition so but they all want to have a bigger space the other thing is that for the vendors we try to make a good mix of what is being offered we don't have 20 people selling kits for example and yes we do have a lot of manufacturers of figures because that's

[01:54:17] obviously simpler more or less than making plastic model kits obviously because of the technical issues involved and the costs but still I think there's a good balance between scale modeling what we offer for scale modelers and what is on offer for figures figure painters and stuff so and there are more and more aftermarket for the scale modeling side there are more and more aftermarket companies come in there's more aircraft

[01:54:47] related products coming in all companies coming in so yeah I think we're quite happy with this year's list actually it's already on the website the full list so people want to look at what is it scalemodelchallenge.com you can go to the trade page and then you see the full list of all the vendors that are there and then they can start to save money for everything they want to buy well everybody that comes back says oh my god I spent so much money so you're

[01:55:19] yeah yeah yeah yeah do they do those other that's the good thing about us as a couple that we are both into it you know we are it's the show is our house we don't have to justify the expenses no of course no of course do you know what other guys I think the key thing is that you clearly like value the visitor experience above everything else and that really does shine through in the way in which you talk about the show so passionately

[01:55:48] what I hear a lot from people that visit the show in the past is it feels less like an exhibition and more like a celebration of the hobby yeah that's true is that something that you guys have deliberately tried to create and how important is that sense of community to you guys well I'm the running lady on the show and I try to go on the desk a couple of times day to say hi to

[01:56:18] everybody and I'm the hugging lady I'm hugging everybody and so for me it's all my children are coming and if they need something I always will help them if they ask me something and I can help I will do it so for me it's very important that people feel welcome and that's my job at the show for the vendors for the visitors for everybody we always say that the venue is our home and we

[01:56:47] are welcoming our guests and friends everybody in our home because and again it sounds cheesy but we've been coming there since 2010 so that's 16 years with an exception of the COVID of course and it actually does feel like we're receiving our friends and new friends and acquaintances and totally strangers into our home it really feels like that we come in on

[01:57:17] Thursday and the people at the desk they say hey Margot Robert you are back and then most of the people that are working there they know us and there are even people that are working there they ask if they can work on the weekend of skill model challenge yeah they want to be part of the show because they like the atmosphere and they like the people that are coming there and you know it's yeah it's great

[01:57:47] and even they ask us every now and then is that guy from Australia coming wants to work on that weekend and unfortunately we there are some people that we really love to see there on the weekend but because of the COVID they they lost their job they moved over to another job but yeah

[01:58:17] most of the people that are working there they love to work on that weekend you know what the good thing is for the technical assistants or the people that help us out you know it's all backstage work actually and those people are there for as long as

[01:58:56] I 66 volunteers from the club and their wives yeah their partners or whatever or kids yeah ah that's amazing and then we also have some external help like the guys from the British flat figure society they're always with five or six and they help us put these cloths on the table on Friday morning we don't need to tell them anything they do their thing and they really what to do so

[01:59:26] it's amazing so that's over 70 so in total over 70 people over the weekend so not two days three days only come for one

[01:59:56] child to there but they helped already for many years that's just got such a sense of community I mean I've not been fortunate enough to visit yet but I'll just touch upon what you said about the competition I mean I've seen a lot of images online and the quality of the competition entries is just incredible but from your perspective as organizers I'm interested to know what trends or techniques have really stood out over the last couple of

[02:00:25] years and do you think the standard is still climbing or do you think we might potentially have reached the peak I can only speak about figures I think the techniques are out of this world these days I mean I cannot catch up anymore I won a lot of medals in the past gold medals silver bronze whatever and now I have my pot of highly command it I cannot

[02:00:56] keep up with these people inventing new techniques and I mean especially in the fantasy yeah I've seen a lot of that online yeah and I think it will not stop it change every somebody invent something in in the past it was Kirill Knaev yeah and well he was the one who brought a lot of techniques into the figure

[02:01:26] painting that are still people are still using it and I think he was the how do you say it the one who bring the figure painting to a higher level in my opinion he was technically yeah technically elevated yeah so do you think it's like more of an evolution then do you reckon the evolution of techniques yeah more revolution more revolution and I think in scale modeling I don't

[02:01:55] think I've seen many new techniques it's just that they are being done better than before and by more people than before do you think some of that's product led as well maybe yes definitely I mean I'm still screwing around with oil paints and thinners to my washes and pin washes and whatever and I don't have

[02:02:41] on internet and with guys like Martin Kovac for example what's his nickname again night night shift I mean people are so easily introduced to all kinds of techniques and I've always said in the past that you can read a lot of books and magazines but if you never saw something simple like a wash being done in the flesh it always stays a little bit I'd say

[02:03:11] not obscure but a bit of guesswork you know the term when you do the air brushing it has to have the consistency of milk I mean what the consistency for example right yeah so what does it actually mean because I think because of internet a lot of things have become more available to much wider people which doesn't answer your question but I don't think I've seen so many

[02:03:41] new techniques especially in scale modeling I come from a military scale modeling background I've made dioramas from the beginning the only thing I do see is that the quality improves keeps improving a lot consistency across the board to be fair I actually think you've encompassed it really well of the I think that is the figure community you have a lot of workshops and that is very

[02:04:11] special for the figures I mean for scale modeling it's not working but you can do every one workshop if you want it's amazing in every country you can do every month a new workshop if you have the money and the time but it can also be difficult because you learn every time there are some people that are doing a lot of workshops and they don't take to practice that

[02:04:41] technique for a while and then before they adapted this technique to their own then they already have some other input and another input and another input and I know for myself I stopped doing workshops because I

[02:05:11] it was always the same person and he knew me and I know him and so I could learn from him and get steps out if you do too many workshops it's not good I think that's my opinion that's my opinion yeah I think there's a fine I think you're right it goes more from a like a technique process to more of a coaching you as an individual by what you just said there yeah well it's my opinion other people maybe have another idea

[02:05:41] but it's good for people that they sit together it's always fun workshops that's true and like I said you actually see how something is being done rather than just read it from a book or magazine nothing against those two media but the thing is years ago when I wasn't that long back in the hobby I was in a Belgian show where I think Miguel Kimenez was doing a demonstration and you really saw his thing and then I thought okay

[02:06:10] so that's a wash or that's a filter or that's how it works and then you get more the consistency of milk that's brilliant thanks guys really appreciate that answer that was really interesting thanks for that the hobbies changed enormously and I can vouch for this myself with 3D printing and digital sculpting social media and AI assisted design how a scale model challenge evolved to

[02:06:40] reflect those changes while still celebrating traditional craftsmanship that's a very good one so if you talk about crutch building and scale models we have in our competition for example we have only one class for crutch built models could be an be a car for I care about we look we have we always look for judges who know that game so

[02:07:10] they are not really focused on one specific theme so we we two classes because there are two levels I think at the moment there is a standard and a master category for the

[02:07:40] sculpting of figures and in that category you can have both traditionally sculpted and 3D sculpted pieces and I actually made an exception because usually our judging teams per class they consist out of three judges and this year I decided to do four judges for those classes two traditional sculptors and two 3D sculptors so because one of the traditional sculptors

[02:08:09] said to me one or two years ago we said listen I've been judging with this and that person in that particular class and I thought I knew what I was looking at because as a traditional sculptor he was looking at 3D scopes and he said oh well that's cool and that's fine and that's fantastic and that's super and blah blah blah and then the lady that was judging with him said one of them said yeah but that's a board STL file and that's a board STL

[02:08:39] file so they recognize that stuff easily where you and I probably have no clue what we're looking at so it's in terms for the competition we really try to find judges that are really up to date with the current techniques and whether that's painting building or weathering whatever that's what we look at so I think that's how we try to keep up with the

[02:09:09] whole evolution that's going on now the AI thing might be a little bit different a bit more tricky I think but yeah I see that some figure companies bringing up new stuff and then if you see it and you don't read what is written there then you think whoa that's nice painting and if you want to know who painted it it was AI and I refuse to

[02:09:39] share this post because I don't want to support AI I want to support European craftsmanship and one of the things we do is trying to give younger people a step up in in the whole scene in the whole community and everything if I see that and I talked with one company that shared something and then a friend of mine painted

[02:10:09] AI and I talked with him because he's a person that I can tell him I said deleted the share because it's AI painted and he said oh my god so and he was so kind he deleted also that thing he said I didn't know that it was such a thing and I explained him that a lot of book star painters have no job anymore because it's too expensive

[02:10:38] and if everybody starts to give AI the opportunity to paint it in then what are the figure painters needed to do if they do it for their job for their living a lot of people are doing it for their living so for me that's the border I will not share something that is painted with AI of course I cannot tell people what to do or what not to do but I know a lot of

[02:11:08] box art painters and I talked this week with one and he said I'm happy that he has another job also but a lot of people stop with painting because of this because of and I'm really scared for the future for that well I completely get it there's some manufacturers that have now started using AI generation on their boxes as well within the scale modeling world and there's I know a guy in Australia who does all the box art stuff like trumpeter like he

[02:11:38] does like warships they'll do armor vehicles you've got the guys at that do all those the hand painting absolutely stunning go back to a legend that was Roy Cross who did all the old urfix boxes during the 50s 60s and 70s and I think that for me is having it originally painted by a painter makes you want that product more than seeing it AI generated yeah yeah does it look real

[02:12:07] the realisms in the painting for me that's it's to do with the artistic floor of a box that is subject but you know what the problem is people don't a lot of people don't see the difference anymore because it's like you know we support or we don't support the try to in the rules for our vendors for example we have we say that it's not allowed to sell recasts for example

[02:12:37] right and we are very much against that recasting but also other stuff and there's a lot of counterfeit on the market if you start in this hobby you're not aware sometimes now mostly you know you just don't know you think oh okay that's a lot cheaper than I would buy it from XYZ I'll just buy it on eBay and then turns out it's a Russian or Chinese copy and you don't know but I mean there is people a lot of people try to

[02:13:06] create a lot of awareness of that and it's with AI it's the same thing you know I do get on my feeds on Instagram I get a lot of people that play guitar whatever and it's brilliant but if you look at and the people look very nice usually chicks with guitars but if you look at how they place the fingers and what you actually hear it doesn't make any sense it's just AI generated and the other day I heard a song on Spotify and I thought hey that's cool

[02:13:36] and I was generated thing and the song's great and I thought me what the hell am I supposed to like this because I like the song and it's the same thing with what you said about the box arts I think a lot of people don't see it that way anymore they just think hey it's cool box art but and we had a discussion of this a couple of nights ago Margot and I because initially I said yeah

[02:14:06] well you know what's the point but the thing is a lot of professional painters losing business because of it and for the manufacturers obviously it's a lot cheaper to do it by AI because you know a painted box out of a figure like a 54 mil figure would be like 500 to 800 euros that's low end could be a lot more and in the end the consumer has to pay for that and if an AI generated picture

[02:14:35] cost you a lot one minute of work basically you're going to save yourself a lot of money as a manufacturer so I don't know it

[02:15:36] looks completely wrong because like you say if you've got talented bigger painters that you're able to put absolute superb levels of detail in I think it's better than AI because you're able to see it with the naked eye and AI being generated if you come to the show and you walk around and of course I speak from the fairs if you walk around and you see these tables and where people show you

[02:16:21] AI products coming back to scale modeling I think the 3D the development of 3D is a blessing of the time you see as long as it replaces PE I think it's a blessing because PE is just a nightmare to work with at times but you see so many nice details on models that are really fantastic and it's just jaw dropping amazing stuff what you see on the other hand you

[02:16:51] recognize that a lot of it is just a board piece that you can stick on the model and it does yeah so for some people it's still quite a challenge to glue two pieces of plastic together properly so it's not just a smooth ride if you have all that stuff but to be honest I'm not an aircraft builder but one guy a couple of guys in the club are and we were looking on a certain show we were looking at some contest models a couple of years ago and I said

[02:17:21] oh man look at the cockpit that's fantastic and blah blah blah you say yeah but it's a 3D deck on stick on and now you have all these pre-painted things as well like safety belts and well everything is well not everything but a lot of stuff

[02:17:55] had already installed on them and everything else and they're so fine in 3D printed resin that it beats 4SWitch 4SWitch for me is the biggest killer of a Hobbit because if you don't get it right or you

[02:18:25] because in 3D injection molding they can't get that amount of detail in because it just wouldn't work so with the 3D elements I completely get where you're coming from and then also changes I mean we've also the way that models are being judged it changes that way unless you make special classes or categories for stuff with a lot of 3D printed pieces in there or just out of the box or

[02:18:55] one of the main criteria where models are being judged is the finishing that is not to say that we don't ask our judges to look at the construction because construction especially in the master level classes has to be flawless together gold metal anyway definitely construction is part of the game but that's why judges really look more at the finishing and how

[02:19:25] techniques are applied and used because a lot of eye judge competitions as well and sometimes you see models that where a lot of techniques haven't been used a lot of weathering techniques or painting techniques haven't been used just for the sake of it there's no plan it's just because they read in the book that you should do A B C D and all

[02:19:55] apply something looks like what it looks like and I think that there's a lot to gain still I think especially with beginners or maybe intermediate modelers as well that they should learn how to apply these techniques especially in these days where so much is readily available I mean I dish all my PE tool clamps I have all my PE tool clamps I don't use them anymore I bought them all in 3D so it's a lot less work and it looks much better

[02:20:24] anyway yeah well for the figures I think 90% of the figures is 3D and it makes them really more beautiful and also easier to paint hand sculpted figures are really difficult to paint it's because you have not the strong edges or whatever you need to do more to

[02:20:54] build it together and it's for some people they only want to have hand sculpted figures but the most that I have and that I painted or at least the last couple of years is 3D and it's all about the nice details especially the hair it's almost impossible to do that

[02:21:23] by hand and I think the most hand sculpted figures is in the historical but even there you have a lot of 3D and I think for that I embrace it because it helps the people to paint them easier and the details are amazing so 3D is for me that's a blessing and especially

[02:21:52] if you have many figures and you buy a lot of figures and you paint a lot you figures you see it when you have it in hand so yeah but companies cannot longer afford to have only hand sculpted figures it's impossible okay just to go back to a point that Robert made earlier going back to detailing cockpits and things of that nature 3D printing I

[02:22:22] think especially some of the pre-painted is covering an area that we're all into a model that can be done a lot faster otherwise you're spending hours tens of hours hundreds of hours on an area that you're not going to see that much detail in when you've put the thing together so I

[02:23:03] eight but there's a compromise between time and the quality that you're working on well and there's the other thing because what I just said was merely from my standpoint from organizing a show and people entering competitions I think to have modelers maybe not so much your listeners but a lot of there are a lot of modelers in the world that don't even know that shows exist yes don't we just build models for that just for well we should all build for fun to start with

[02:23:32] but they just do it for their relaxation maybe they build two models a year on a kitchen table on a Saturday for example and that's what she just said is absolutely true not

[02:24:03] everybody that is in this hobby actually visits shows or enters competitions so that's a big difference yeah true obviously running an event of this scale because obviously I have seen pictures of SMC and it looks absolutely superb it must have its first share of memorable moments looking back over the oh that's

[02:24:33] a good question oh my god one guy from the club he's not long a member of the club but he was for a long time not because of this no no no not because of this but he was always the one who was the last one leaving the bar the bar is the update bar that's the bar that's the focus point in the evening that they have the Belgian beers and all the beers that's everybody who visits the show knows the update bar

[02:25:02] and he was always the last one and but the venue the hotel is crazy you need a map to know to find your room and he couldn't find his room and then he woke up in the hallway or whatever one night he went to his room and he signed his room and but there's also these machines the vending machine so he took Mars with him to his room

[02:25:33] and when he was in bed and he was eating Mars he was falling asleep so the next morning Mars was this and that's the story that I will never forget the sheets were covered in the Mars everything was chocolate yeah but one of the accidents I'm not really sure nothing happens by accident in our show no I organized it too well that's my problem and the fun thing that we had in the past was the karaoke but

[02:26:02] we cannot longer do it because it was in the bar downstairs and they had a French guy that did actually play guitar sang and people could join in and that was always that kind of happened by accident because he was a figure painter I don't know if he still paints because I don't see much of him anymore but he was a figure painter

[02:26:32] and at one point he said why don't we try it one time and I said well why not and it's been you don't want to invest in that anymore so we don't have that particular spot anymore but we decided recently that next year when we have our 20th anniversary we will have that karaoke

[02:27:02] thing again so everybody with a singing voice or not singing voice doesn't matter drunk enough to embrace I sound like a street in cats with icing you're kindly invited next year just have to find a plane hopefully I'll be there next year just back on this year because unfortunately I'm actually I actually fly to America on the Monday as SMC happens on that weekend so if it had been any other time I would definitely have gone

[02:27:32] next year will be great greater than ever no pressure of 16 and 17 next year 20th anniversary but it's going to be special so special with a lot of surprises that are so secret that we don't know ourselves what they're going to be but we're going to make something special trust us but what accidents there I

[02:28:05] don't mention drunken people all the time happens Robert it happens at scale model world itself the pubs just get absolutely rammed and the nights are absolutely hilarious cracking bunch of people I can remember that one point that somebody was post everywhere I think it was on Facebook and somebody says yeah but where are the pictures of the models I only see drunken guys hanging out in the bar that was true that

[02:28:36] was on Sunday morning whatever yeah but then again there are about 3,000 models figures and scale models in competition that are being photographed every year by one of the guys and a couple of days later he puts 3,000 pictures on our FTP and they're available online yeah yeah but yeah it's always fun in the evening yeah it's amazing during the day people need to stop me if they see me because

[02:29:05] I even pass my own grandchildren because I'm like out of head now running around so and it's always fun and then I talk too long over here and then I need to go over there but then in the evening it's amazing yeah that's all people from all over the world from Japan from whatever from all generations are coming together and hanging around there in the bar and having conversations

[02:29:35] and having fun and even outside even if it's October they are sitting outside yeah and and hanging around so yeah it's amazing it's amazing yeah do you know what a difficult thing is for me to go to bed and not hang out until you know deep in the night yeah yeah because you know because the place used to be a convent not that old but used to be a convent and then

[02:30:05] so it's kind of a labyrinth of aisles and stuff and there are corners everywhere where people can sit and have a drink whatever playing games whatever and so a lot of people just when the bar closes at one o'clock then they still you know hang out all over the place and for me nowadays is that I have to go to bed a little bit earlier than I used to because first of all I'm not getting any younger and I have a job to do I still

[02:30:35] haven't announced I have an award ceremony to take care of so yeah I can't afford losing my voice last year was the first time that I didn't make it until the end otherwise Robert and I we always stay last man standing on Sunday and then hand in hand we walk through the whole long hallways and then looking back and say nobody's there nobody's there just you and me where is

[02:31:05] everybody everybody is gone so that's always a sad moment yeah yeah it's always like you know you had a weekend but years ago there was a Greek friend of us Michael Contreras he was the first time at our show in 2015 and on Sunday evening I asked him I said did you enjoy yourself and he said are you kidding me I haven't seen daylight in three days and I'm still laughing so what do you mind so that's it everything is on the one roof so yeah that sums it up pretty much yeah yeah

[02:31:35] well I think the most special year was world model expo yeah which wasn't even an SMC well it was an SMC on steroids it was an SMC on steroids I don't know if you are aware of the whole world expo thing but we organized it in supposed to be 2020 but then obviously COVID interfered 2021 was nothing and then in 2022 we had our world model expo and I think we had over 4,000 models in the competition

[02:32:04] and it was huge and it because three days because it was yeah it was really three full days so Friday Saturday Sunday and it was in the summer so we had a on Saturday evening we had a big barbecue out there and everybody's asking us why don't you do a barbecue again and I said well SMC is in October dudes I mean imagine that could be anything right could be nice weather but it can also rain caps and dogs you don't know what it's gonna be but everybody

[02:32:34] a lot of people are still asking why don't you do that why don't you do it because of that and but the world model expo was for us I think I think I truly believe that we set a standard that how a world model expo should be organized anyway so we we set the bar pretty high I think and partly because everybody came out of that COVID period it was buzzing it was

[02:33:04] buzzing everybody was really I don't know it was there was just an atmosphere that was incredible and I can't describe it but it was just great to see everybody again after two years I mean that's basically it and it was just a great manifestation of happiness and friendship and yeah that's just what it was and I even get goosebumps now that I talking about it it was really a great show and yeah that was such a big turnout from all over all over the world

[02:33:33] and I think yeah that may have been the highlight yeah and also that we bring the modeling into the world model expo yeah that was in the past it was always about fares mainly mainly and we did just like we did SMC we did also the world model expo and we needed to fight well let's say that it was an SMC on steroids because well yeah organization wise it wasn't much different

[02:34:03] just well of course three days is extra there is more you have volunteers yeah you have to organize a little bit more but basically we were there so you just work from there and so it wasn't all new for us no but that was yeah that may have been the highlight yeah but still again I'm still happy with every SMC that we do and one of the every year I try to come up with something different than the year before because that was that's

[02:34:33] what keeps it fresh because with all due respect to the people that organized Euro Militaire and back in the day they were leaning back at some point and when you lean back you know and especially nowadays where there are so many more shows that people can go to because I think when Euro Militaire started there wasn't much of that size around anyway but nowadays I don't know there are just so many countries where they organize big shows and I see

[02:35:02] we see new shows in Spain coming up we see more shows in Italy than there already are I think yeah it's people have a lot of things to choose from where they can go but I can only tell them there's only one SMC and there's only one show where you can find the atmosphere that we have because actually today I saw a post from and I won't mention any names but I saw from a very known Asian modeler who

[02:35:31] is going to a certain show and I'm sure he's going to be very very disappointed to be there and I thought why hell don't you come to us dude why don't you they will come yeah so finally looking ahead where do you see scale model challenge in another 10 years are the ambitions or ideas still on your wish list that you'd love to bring to life

[02:36:01] well to start I told Robert that he's not allowed to stop with scale model challenge because in three years he is retired and then he needs something you're going absolutely yeah yeah keep me from arresting all that yeah I remember that years ago I told Robert because it it takes a lot of our life and I said well probably

[02:36:31] when I we need to stop when I'm 60 I think I said 60 I said 65 I don't know you said 61 you said 65 and now I don't talk about stopping anymore I'm 69 so in 10 years maybe in my wheelchair or my sportmobile or whatever I'm running around well I'm turning 64 this year so he's younger to be honest every time you think okay how long the thing is I think

[02:37:00] no I know I will continue as long as I have 66 idiots that sign up to volunteer every year or 70 plus to help out because organizing everything the whole year before is one thing but getting it done just requires a lot of hands and what I long time ago one of the guys in the club once said to me listen I joined the club to

[02:37:30] because it's my hobby I didn't join the club to organize a show and I said to him organizing and working two days in a weekend at a show or one day at a time there's still a difference but I know what you're saying and I hear you and nowadays I'm always very happy to hear members of our club saying I'm very excited and that's a couple of months ago already I'm so excited for the next show and I'm really happy and we you know I'm already you know they took their days off because that's something else

[02:38:00] that you have to consider people have to take that days off from work to help building up three days off because some are dead on Monday as well so they have to recover and I really appreciate all that effort that people put into it so maybe in the whole year before they don't are not really involved too much in the real organization of this but I am really grateful

[02:38:29] that I have so many people that show without that it's impossible yeah and I think that's the most important thing and for me it's important that I keep people enthusiastic to help out with the show every year so I have to put my grumpy side aside sometimes and just be a happy dude motivate people to help out but because of the event itself I think is motivation and there's a lot of motivation for most of them

[02:38:58] it's just up to me to you okay so the most important thing is you go to scalemodelchallenge.com where you can find all the information you do need and you don't need and you don't care about but still think is important I think you find everything there

[02:39:27] a link to the ticketing website the prices the opening hours the address and everything else but for the lazy people it is on October 17 and 18 this year Saturday Sunday it's open daily from 930 until 5 o'clock and it's in the Netherlands in Veldhoven and H Koningshof but I think for the address I think it's best to go to the website and find all the details there

[02:39:57] you find all the details for the competition because the competition registration opens August 1 and closes I think October 2nd of October this year so you have two months to register your models what else is there you'll find full program on it at one point everything is ready yet but we have some nice guests actually we have for the figures or the fantasy people Paul Bonner is a guest this

[02:40:33] from United States as a special guest as well and all these three guests will be interviewed by Chris Manning in individual Q&As that will be spread out over the weekend and people can join come in the room where the interviews take place it's a small hall so there's plenty of space that part of the show is for free and people can join in

[02:41:03] we have a lot of workshops yeah we also have that's basically all figures the only thing we have Saturday we have I think Tyson Harms the owner of Alpine Miniatures is doing a workshop on sculpting I think he still has a couple of seats and we have Lisa Vivarelli from Italy doing a workshop on ethnic skin tones and tribal tattoos for you know ones who want to do that there are still some seats for that all the other workshops are sold out

[02:41:33] www.scalemodellchallenge.com I mean you can find all the info you need you can really find all the info you need and if you still need more information there are a couple of contact forms for specific areas of the show that you can use and we'll try to respond as much as fast as possible well that website is where Nevz and myself bought our tickets our weekend passes for the event and we were too slow in getting hotel accommodation yes that is a thing that's a thing that is a thing and I'll be honest with

[02:42:03] you we had the hotel has 500 rooms and there are about 20 that they allocate to airline crews for the airport that is quite near to the venue and yeah you know those 480 rooms they just go fast I mean if you imagine you we have like 170 vendors or something and not all of them stay but we also have Dutch and Belgian vendors that just drive home every day but you can imagine that a lot of them just want to stay

[02:42:33] at the hotel so there are a lot of rooms already taken it's just a fact and if the place had a thousand rooms it wouldn't have enough and they would do okay it would take four minutes to sell out but instead of two but that's it I mean there's nothing I can change about that I'm sorry and that's something that was the best thing about Folkestone with the Euromelet I mean the hotels weren't too good but at least there were plenty and in walking distance and

[02:43:02] yeah it takes a bit the good thing is that our venue it has a bus stop literally in front of the hotel entrance so I mean the city Eindhoven from the central station of Eindhoven straight to the hotel and all the hotels in Eindhoven they are all good and Eindhoven is a nice place also to hang around in the evening and it's very easy from there to the venue so I think

[02:43:32] we have a lot of do we have hotels on the website yes you do yeah but it's there is a list but to be honest I haven't go to booking.com yeah I haven't updated this for a long time because I think everybody uses some booking.com or whatever so yeah and all the hotels I mean people can choose what they want and how much they want to spend but in the center of Eindhoven it's nice and the website is in sort

[02:44:01] of English exclusively anyway one of the other things that I dropped years ago everything in three four languages because you know we're at Google yeah it takes a lot of time and there's a lot of information with Google you can just you know only you can have everything in your own in your own language I think only the contest rules and classes and stuff is in six languages available we also have which is very important for people who want to enter the competition we have the judging criteria also online on the same contest page

[02:44:30] in six languages because I think it's important that you read them more or less to know in which class you have to enter your models because you know what we ask the judges to look for that's the main reason we have those judging criteria online so people are not putting their models in their own class so it happens it happens well you may don't put an aircraft in a tank the class of that you rest assured but you know there are some things that might be different from

[02:45:00] shows that people used to so that's the reason I'm saying fair enough okay it's easy to look at scale model challenge and see an incredible weekend of modeling shopping and competition yes but our conversation has shown just how dedication planning and passion goes into creating an event of this caliber if you've never experienced scale model challenge before hopefully this will have whittled your appetite to actually make the journey to Eindhoven to participate and to attend Mahago Robert thank you very much for your

[02:45:30] time and we look forward to meeting you in person in October yes yeah looking forward looking forward to that thank you thank you very much guys are you looking for top quality paints for your next project then look no further than the scale modeler supply hi I'm Scott and as a passionate modeler

[02:45:59] myself I've spent years creating the SMS product range designing them specifically with a scale modeler in mind we've worked extensively to develop our acrylic lacquer paint range to not only be airbrush ready straight out of the bottle but also to be very easy to use so that anyone of any skill level can create professional results with minimal effort just give the bottle a good shake pour into your airbrush and spray it 15 psi so dive into your next project with confidence knowing that you're backed by one of the finest hobby paints on the market head over to our website

[02:46:29] scalemodel.com.au to check out our full range and to find your closest retailer head over to modelpodcast.com and explore the best modeling podcasts available today a worldwide podcast hub

[02:46:58] curated by Stuart Clark from the scale model podcast coming up in episode 36 we will be joined by Jamie Tranta from hollow crown miniatures and Paul Regan formerly IPMS UK president talking about wargaming

[02:47:26] well that's it for episode 35 so from Shane take care benchmates from Dan thank you for your time benchmates nevs goodbye from the AI and from boulders and boulders is gone you absolute whopper you absolute whopper three two one see you next time benchmates

[02:47:55] nevs you're an ass you're an absolute ass and from myself thanks very much for listening we'll see you again soon bye bye for now benchmates we'd like to take a moment to remember someone many of our benchmates will remember from the show

[02:48:23] back in episode 17 we had the pleasure of welcoming IPMS Farnborough member Julian Edwards who joined us to talk about the branch its members and everything they had going on it was a lovely conversation with someone whose passion for the hobby shone through while recording this episode we've received the very sad news that Julian has passed away during that interview Julian spoke about how much he was hoping to visit scale model world in Telford this year sadly although

[02:48:53] known at the time in the interview Julian was fighting terminal cancer and on the 27th of July he very sadly lost that battle Julian was one of the many people who make this hobby what it is generous with his time passionate about modeling and proud to represent his local branch from all of us here at beyond the box art we would like to send our sincere condolences to Julian's family his friends and everyone at IPMS Farnborough our thoughts

[02:49:22] are with you all blue skies Julian Julian